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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 7941660" data-attributes="member: 93670">I thought you wrote it with the tongue in cheek sarcasm it looked to have ;D&nbsp; How about the <a href="https://www.evilhat.com/home/tag/fractal/" target="_blank">fate fractal</a> as an example of useful complexity in an rpg?&nbsp; All of the rules for it can be fit on a handwritten 3x5 index card (I've done it &amp; handed it to players before) but the results are hugely complex &amp; deep[spoiler=&quot;couple relevant pages from fate core&quot;][ATTACH=full]119881[/ATTACH][ATTACH=full]119882[/ATTACH]and that says nothing about all the relevant examples in the sections about character &amp; npc aspects/stunts/etc elsewhere.&nbsp; In order to play fate, you need to have the understanding you can get from the first couple pages in this <a href="https://www.evilhat.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Fate-Core-Cheat-Sheet-and-Vet-Guide.pdf" target="_blank">cheat sheet</a>, however it takes about 200-300 pages of the fate core rulebook to truly explain what those rules mean &amp; how they interact before you truly realize how deep that apparent&nbsp; puddle goes (especially from a gm point of view)[/spoiler]More importantly though, it's absurd for people to suggest that the sort of tactical combat enabled by meaningful rules for AoOs &amp; the like are &quot;complicated&quot;.&nbsp; Since some people have complained about 3.5 comparisons, back in 4e it looked like this[ATTACH=full]119883[/ATTACH][ATTACH=full]119887[/ATTACH][ATTACH=full]119885[/ATTACH]with some abilities allowing you to react to one of those or do one as part of the ability.Ignoring the 4e numbers it amounts to adding words saying that moving more than 5 feet when adjacent to a hostile opponent triggers an opportunity attack as some point in phb181/182 where movement is described &amp; adding &quot;this does(not) provoke an opportunity attack&quot; to various abilities.&nbsp; This whole discussion people have just been mking a blanket statement that things like tactical combat are too complex as if they were saying water is wet without making any attempt to prove or show how it was too complex.&nbsp; You can literally omit all of those rules and achieve 5e's AoO's with a single sentence along the lines of &quot;for simpler less tactical combat a gm or group may want/choose to limit the number of things capable of provoking an opportunity attack to moving away from a hostile opponent without disengaging or firing a ranged weapon while in melee range with a hostile opponent.&quot; while still including rules for people who want those who want a more tactical combat or feel that level of simplicity is too much.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 7941660, member: 93670"] I thought you wrote it with the tongue in cheek sarcasm it looked to have ;D How about the [URL='https://www.evilhat.com/home/tag/fractal/']fate fractal[/URL] as an example of useful complexity in an rpg? All of the rules for it can be fit on a handwritten 3x5 index card (I've done it & handed it to players before) but the results are hugely complex & deep [spoiler="couple relevant pages from fate core"][ATTACH type="full"]119881[/ATTACH] [ATTACH type="full"]119882[/ATTACH] and that says nothing about all the relevant examples in the sections about character & npc aspects/stunts/etc elsewhere. In order to play fate, you need to have the understanding you can get from the first couple pages in this [URL='https://www.evilhat.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Fate-Core-Cheat-Sheet-and-Vet-Guide.pdf']cheat sheet[/URL], however it takes about 200-300 pages of the fate core rulebook to truly explain what those rules mean & how they interact before you truly realize how deep that apparent puddle goes ([I]especially[/I] from a gm point of view)[/spoiler] More importantly though, it's absurd for people to suggest that the sort of tactical combat enabled by meaningful rules for AoOs & the like are "complicated". Since some people have complained about 3.5 comparisons, back in 4e it looked like this [ATTACH type="full"]119883[/ATTACH] [ATTACH type="full"]119887[/ATTACH] [ATTACH type="full"]119885[/ATTACH] with some abilities allowing you to react to one of those or do one as part of the ability. Ignoring the 4e numbers it amounts to adding words saying that moving more than 5 feet when adjacent to a hostile opponent triggers an opportunity attack as some point in phb181/182 where movement is described & adding "this does(not) provoke an opportunity attack" to various abilities. This whole discussion people have just been mking a blanket statement that things like tactical combat are too complex as if they were saying water is wet without making any attempt to prove or show [I] how [/I]it was too complex. You can literally omit all of those rules and achieve 5e's AoO's with a single sentence along the lines of "for simpler less tactical combat a gm or group may want/choose to limit the number of things capable of provoking an opportunity attack to moving away from a hostile opponent without disengaging or firing a ranged weapon while in melee range with a hostile opponent." while still including rules for people who want those who want a more tactical combat or feel that level of simplicity is too much. [/QUOTE]

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