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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 7941727" data-attributes="member: 93670">Making a chocolate cake is more complex than making a plain/vanilla/white/yellow cake on an objective level because it has an extra ingredient but that doesn't make it complex.You didn't say anything to prove or show how those things are complex or that they are too complex.&nbsp; Should they drop to one save &amp; remove all the feats &amp; spells because those are complexities that coul be layered in&nbsp; later?&nbsp; They already use my approach&nbsp; of having the rules there &amp; allowing them to be used or not by the gm though, feats are there &amp; built into the system, but you can choose not to use them &amp; just take the ASIs givenAs to just writing a suppliment for dmsguild, you keep throwing that out like there are not people in this &amp; other threads on the topics with dmsguild titles.&nbsp; More importantly it ignores the fact that in order to simply add it to 5e you need to change a ton of stuff &amp; pretty soon are no longer playing 5e because you are playing $dmsguildTitle.Aye, 4e's problems were on a completely different level &amp; those problems in addition to major system differences cimplicating the comparison* are likely a big part of why people rarely use it for example/comparison sake but people were getting quite nasty about 3/3.5 comparisons &amp; the basis for AoOs in 4e were easier to show. Having gotten dragged into a few d20 games in the last several months I can understand the hassle of its pain in the ass skill system (<a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/the-3e-skill-system.669480/" target="_blank">recent relevant thread</a>).&nbsp; But that does not mean that there are not things in them that were done better than 5e &amp; should have been preserved rather than taking 5e's overly streamlined too much of a good thing approach.&nbsp; * 1e/2e also have so many differences that comparisons are often overly difficult so3e &amp; 3.5e ggt the lions share of the comparisons.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 7941727, member: 93670"] Making a chocolate cake is more complex than making a plain/vanilla/white/yellow cake on an objective level because it has an extra ingredient but that doesn't make it complex. You didn't say anything to prove or show how those things are complex or that they are too complex. Should they drop to one save & remove all the feats & spells because those are complexities that coul be layered in later? They already use my approach of having the rules there & allowing them to be used or not by the gm though, feats are there & built into the system, but you can choose not to use them & just take the ASIs given As to just writing a suppliment for dmsguild, you keep throwing that out like there are not people in this & other threads on the topics with dmsguild titles. More importantly it ignores the fact that in order to simply add it to 5e you need to change a ton of stuff & pretty soon are no longer playing 5e because you are playing $dmsguildTitle. Aye, 4e's problems were on a completely different level & those problems in addition to major system differences cimplicating the comparison* are likely a big part of why people rarely use it for example/comparison sake but people were getting quite nasty about 3/3.5 comparisons & the basis for AoOs in 4e were easier to show. Having gotten dragged into a few d20 games in the last several months I can understand the hassle of its pain in the ass skill system [I][SIZE=1]([URL='https://www.enworld.org/threads/the-3e-skill-system.669480/']recent relevant thread[/URL])[/SIZE][/I]. But that does not mean that there are not things in them that were done better than 5e & should have been preserved rather than taking 5e's overly streamlined too much of a good thing approach. * 1e/2e also have so many differences that comparisons are often overly difficult so3e & 3.5e ggt the lions share of the comparisons. [/QUOTE]

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