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Message: <blockquote data-quote="javcs" data-source="post: 3255934" data-attributes="member: 43677">Only if you are using the exact same build, the 2h-strength PAer who doesn't expect to do much else. That's where half-orcs excel.A properly built elf archer can put that 2h+PAing orc down with ease.A properly build dwarf tank will absorb more than the 2h-PAer can dish out, while doing almost as much damage in return.A properly built human almost anything comes with a free feat which means he's further down the feat chains/has more feat chains than the 2h-PAer, making him more versatile and probably equipped with more feats useful in a one on one, and more likely to be PrCed.A Kobold fighter, though unlikely, is as fast, and significantly harder to hit, and is probably going to be a ranged specialist, and pretty good at it, with a better bonus to his attacks.Halflings and gnomes probably aren't fighters or barbarians, but they'd be harder to hit, and have their own, wider niches to be in.Pick an ECL, set of splatbooks, and statgen method, and I can build a fighter/barb from non-templated races other than the half-orc that are as good or better than your half-orc fighter/barb. Just about anybody could do it.The point is, the half-orc can do well, in a limited set of roles, really only one or two, 2h and PA with some minor variations, whereas the other races can do as well or better in their own roles, and have more roles that they can fill reasonably well, while a half-orc can't really do much outside of the couple roles they have, and are only at their best with two classes from core, they're not even that good with most non-core classes, the other races are good with almost all classes, both core and non-core. In addition, the other races all have small bonuses that, though useful in limited situations, are good. Half-orcs don't even get bonuses when fighting dwarves, elves, or any other traditional foes, heck, an elf is more intimidating than a half-orcIn all honesty, half-elves, widely considered one of the weakest of the PHB races, are better than half-orcs.Personally, I wouldn't play a half-orc unless I absolutely had to, if one of my chars got reincarnated as a half-orc, I'd probably either roll up a brand new character or get reincarnated again.I'm not saying that half-orcs need more ability bonuses, but I do agree that their ability score mods should be different, and that they should get some minor, fairly useless, flavor bonuses, perhaps familiarity with orc double axes, and a moderately significant bonus to Intimidate, among other things.</blockquote>

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