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Message: <blockquote data-quote="webrunner" data-source="post: 5234236" data-attributes="member: 63727">I apologise, I didn't state what I meant clearly:Staffs are weird, really: They're not just treated as weapons, they're treated as an entirely different item which is a weapon.Unlike other weapon-implements, a Staff is actually has varying properties and names depending on what purpose they are being used.  A staff is treated a quarterstaff, which means it's both a "Staff (Implement") and a "Quarterstaff (Weapon)" of the "Staff (Weapon group)" group.  A longsword, for instance, is still a longsword when it is an implement, but a Staff is no longer a Staff (although it is in the same-named Staff group) when it is a weapon, as there are no stats for a Staff (Weapon) item in the game at all.What I was saying before is that an implement cannot be a weapon, but an item can be an implement AND a weapon at the same time, with the same properties, or in the case of the Quarterstaff, be two items at the same time: one a weapon and one an implement.Additionally, a staff is a one-handed implement, but a quarterstaff is a two-handed weapon.  As such, it has completely different properties when treated as one or the other: You can wield two implement staffs, but not two weapon staffs, but you can wield two weapon staff ends if you are treating the quarterstaff as a double weapon.  However, this doesn't change the fact that the entire staff, the entire item which is now a 'double weapon', is still considered to be wielded in one hand by the implement rules as there is still only one Staff implement (which is treated as a Quarterstaff and therefore treated as a double weapon) and staff implements are one handed.The alternative is this strange logic:A Staff is a QuarterstaffA Quarterstaff is a Double WeaponTherefore each end of the quarter staff is it's own weapontherefore each end is an implementTherefore each end is a staffthere are two endstherefore there are two staffstherefore you can use dual implement spellcasterIf one of your sub-conclusions (there are two staffs, a necessary condition for DIS) directly contradicts a premise (there is one staff, the one that the character is holding), then there is a fault in the logic somewhere.</blockquote>

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