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<blockquote data-quote="Noumenon" data-source="post: 4607313" data-attributes="member: 70102">I found a two-page Sage Advice column in Dragon 287 touching on this issue.&nbsp; His system is to roll the spotting distance by terrain type (say, 6d6*10, or 420 feet), and then do Spot checks at that distance.&nbsp; He throws in a large number of modifiers (size, contrast, number of characters, motion).&nbsp; If&nbsp; neither party makes the spot check at 420 feet, then he starts combat at half of that distance (210 feet) with both sides aware.&nbsp; If one party does make the spot check, he gives them surprise unless they close within 210 feet.&nbsp; Or he gives them the opportunity to use Hide, and then he gives the other group Spot checks when they close to 210 feet, 105 feet, and one last one at 30 feet.He doesn't usually give both Listen and Spot checks for one encounter -- just whichever gives the better chance of success.&nbsp;&nbsp; In general, he uses Spot checks outdoors and Listen checks indoors, where spotting distance is determined by illumination and line of sight.&nbsp; I think I still like my simple rule better, but I am going to adapt it because of his discussion of surprise rounds.&nbsp; I'll say</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Noumenon, post: 4607313, member: 70102"] I found a two-page Sage Advice column in Dragon 287 touching on this issue. His system is to roll the spotting distance by terrain type (say, 6d6*10, or 420 feet), and then do Spot checks at that distance. He throws in a large number of modifiers (size, contrast, number of characters, motion). If neither party makes the spot check at 420 feet, then he starts combat at half of that distance (210 feet) with both sides aware. If one party does make the spot check, he gives them surprise unless they close within 210 feet. Or he gives them the opportunity to use Hide, and then he gives the other group Spot checks when they close to 210 feet, 105 feet, and one last one at 30 feet. He doesn't usually give both Listen and Spot checks for one encounter -- just whichever gives the better chance of success. In general, he uses Spot checks outdoors and Listen checks indoors, where spotting distance is determined by illumination and line of sight. I think I still like my simple rule better, but I am going to adapt it because of his discussion of surprise rounds. I'll say [/QUOTE]

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