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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ruleslawyer" data-source="post: 3338709" data-attributes="member: 1757">This is what annoys me by these alignment threads... unraveling the framing issues takes work that could be devoted to doing something *useful* as opposed to hobbying... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />I see. And protecting your friends, even when doing so means risking your own skin and skipping out on material reward, is non-good behavior. Actually, Han comes back to save Luke from Vader... why? He's done his job, he's been paid, he's wished his friend good luck. It is at *least* a good act to fly into the face of the Empire's mighty battlestation to pull out his friend.Likewise, Han sticks around in Hoth *despite* the fact that he's been paid and that the risks of not heading back to Jabba (remember "that bounty hunter on Ord Mantell"?) are substantial.Finally, Han volunteers for the super-dangerous mission to Endor. Without telling Leia, or Luke, or anyone. Hmm.Oh, but it's because he's in love with Leia, you say. Oh, it's because he has friends on Hoth, you say. Your frame necessarily implies that anything done out of enlightened self-interest, or out of concern for the beings, or out of a basic empathy for the things one loves, is not good unless it's for some abstract ideal. That's nonsensical. To repeat, they don't need to be idealists.And "personally pissed at Darth Vader?" Why? What do Han and Chewie have to do with Vader until all the way at the end? Certainly, they don't have a personal enmity (or relationship of any kind) with him the way Luke does. The analogy is to a GI who signed on to WW1 must have done so because he was "pissed off" at Bismarck.</blockquote>

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