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<blockquote data-quote="Forrester" data-source="post: 655857" data-attributes="member: 1279">scarymonkey has clawed his way towards a good point ;P. Let's say Joe Warrior sneaks up behind our Hero and manages to put a knife to the back of his neck. He doesn't attack . . . he just puts the knife there and says to the Hero &quot;Move, and you're dead!&quot; Using typical 3E rules, our Hero laughs and laughs and laughs. He may still be flat-footed, but he's certainly not helpless. The warrior can saw away all he wants, but he's not going to do more than d4 damage plus his strength bonus. Ha ha ha! No reason whatsoever to not turn, let the warrior have his fun, and then smush him. You can easily imagine a similar situation with a bunch of archers surrounding a surprised party (think about the scene in FoTR, near Galadriel's place) or Robin Hood staring you down with his bow from 5' away. I think that it *may* call for defining a new term -- pseudo-helpless. Robin Hood's arrow or Joe Warrior's knife cut SHOULD have some chance of significantly hurting Our Hero. Maybe if our Hero moves there's a chance for a CDG? Maybe the Warrior should get sneak-attack damage, even though he's not a rogue? I dunno. But I can see the need for a rules tweak in there.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Forrester, post: 655857, member: 1279"] scarymonkey has clawed his way towards a good point ;P. Let's say Joe Warrior sneaks up behind our Hero and manages to put a knife to the back of his neck. He doesn't attack . . . he just puts the knife there and says to the Hero "Move, and you're dead!" Using typical 3E rules, our Hero laughs and laughs and laughs. He may still be flat-footed, but he's certainly not helpless. The warrior can saw away all he wants, but he's not going to do more than d4 damage plus his strength bonus. Ha ha ha! No reason whatsoever to not turn, let the warrior have his fun, and then smush him. You can easily imagine a similar situation with a bunch of archers surrounding a surprised party (think about the scene in FoTR, near Galadriel's place) or Robin Hood staring you down with his bow from 5' away. I think that it *may* call for defining a new term -- pseudo-helpless. Robin Hood's arrow or Joe Warrior's knife cut SHOULD have some chance of significantly hurting Our Hero. Maybe if our Hero moves there's a chance for a CDG? Maybe the Warrior should get sneak-attack damage, even though he's not a rogue? I dunno. But I can see the need for a rules tweak in there. [/QUOTE]

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