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<blockquote data-quote="paradox42" data-source="post: 6053268" data-attributes="member: 29746">The people who responded to my post by saying intent doesn't matter misunderstood what I meant, I think. Or perhaps just didn't think it through.As pemerton posted, the Invisibility spell itself states that the caster's perceptions are a determining factor in exactly what constitutes a &quot;foe.&quot; By this wording, if a creature counts (in the caster's view) as a &quot;foe,&quot; and the caster uses a spell which includes said creature in its area or as a target, then that spell constitutes an &quot;attack&quot; for the purposes of Invisibility.Saying that a spell which includes a creature within its area that the caster might consider a foe after the spell is cast, constitutes an &quot;attack,&quot; is patently absurd. The caster's perceptions at casting time do not include the (potential!) enemies, and therefore cannot be counted against the clause in the Invisibility spell description. Consider the case of an Elf caster casting Detect Thoughts and aiming it at a closed door which neither the caster nor any allies has opened or checked through. If the caster then detects thoughts from the other side indicating that there are Orcs on the other side of the still-closed door, this does not suddenly make the spell an &quot;attack&quot; which then breaks Invisibility; it rather makes the spell a scouting tool which told the caster (and presumably, by extension, his allies) that enemies exist beyond the door.By contrast, if the caster is in a room within which his allies and several other creatures exist, including some angry-looking Orcs who will almost certainly Charge into battle given the flimsiest excuse, and the caster casts and aims a Detect Thoughts so as to include the angry Orcs in its AoE, then that constitutes an attack- because the Orcs are clearly Enemies as far as the caster is concerned, and the caster obviously knows they are there (in fact, the spell was specifically aimed so as to catch them). That breaks Invisibility.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="paradox42, post: 6053268, member: 29746"] The people who responded to my post by saying intent doesn't matter misunderstood what I meant, I think. Or perhaps just didn't think it through. As pemerton posted, the [I]Invisibility[/I] spell itself states that the caster's perceptions are a determining factor in exactly what constitutes a "foe." By this wording, if a creature counts ([B]in the caster's view[/B]) as a "foe," and the caster uses a spell which includes said creature in its area or as a target, then that spell constitutes an "attack" for the purposes of [I]Invisibility[/I]. Saying that a spell which includes a creature within its area that the caster might consider a foe [B]after[/B] the spell is cast, constitutes an "attack," is patently absurd. The caster's perceptions at casting time do not include the (potential!) enemies, and therefore [B]cannot[/B] be counted against the clause in the [I]Invisibility[/I] spell description. Consider the case of an Elf caster casting [I]Detect Thoughts[/I] and aiming it at a closed door which neither the caster nor any allies has opened or checked through. If the caster then detects thoughts from the other side indicating that there are Orcs on the other side of the still-closed door, this does not suddenly make the spell an "attack" which then breaks [I]Invisibility[/I]; it rather makes the spell a scouting tool which told the caster (and presumably, by extension, his allies) that enemies exist beyond the door. By contrast, if the caster is in a room within which his allies and several other creatures exist, including some angry-looking Orcs who will almost certainly Charge into battle given the flimsiest excuse, and the caster casts and aims a [I]Detect Thoughts[/I] so as to include the angry Orcs in its AoE, then that constitutes an attack- because the Orcs are clearly Enemies as far as the caster is concerned, and the caster obviously knows they are there (in fact, the spell was specifically aimed so as to catch them). [B]That[/B] breaks [I]Invisibility[/I]. [/QUOTE]

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