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Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Does Melee Training make Deft Strike redundant?
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<blockquote data-quote="Mr. Teapot" data-source="post: 4867660" data-attributes="member: 62191"><p>A lot of your scenarios ignore the advantages of Deft Strike, when it could be useful.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Maybe, or you could use the movement from Deft Strike to get out of cover, make the Deft Strike at range, then use your move action to get back behind cover, regain stealth and ensure Sneak Attack damage.</p><p></p><p>Or you could move to one square away, then Deft Strike to move into a square that isn't the closest adjacent square in order to get flanking. Charges require you go to the closest square you can attack from, which may or may not be the square you can get a flank from. Deft Strike increases the chances that you can get a flank, and/or allows popping in and out of concealment for Stealth fun.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Or Deft Strike to move two squares, get in flank for Sneak Attack, and still have a move action left over to shift or run away (possibly into a hiding place for Stealth).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Deft strike to reposition yourself either for a flank or farther away from the enemy that dazed you, as needed (and depending on whether you have CA).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>For a Halfling Artful Dodger rogue, provoking an OA is not a fear. You're more likely to deliberately provoke OAs so the party Defender can counterattack than you are to try to avoid OAs. You're looking at a +5ish bonus versus OAs to begin with, probably higher if you have a decent Cha and/or Defensive Mobility. OAs are your friend, not your enemy.</p><p></p><p>So deft Strike in this case is useful specifically to provoke the enemy (if there's a friendly fighter around) and still get a flank on the enemy you're attacking.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No, because charging ends your turn, preventing you from hiding when you're done charging. It goes like this: sit in hiding, leap out with Deft Strike, attack with CA, use your move action to return to hiding. Doesn't work on a charge.</p><p></p><p></p><p>In general, you seem to be downplaying the value of positioning. Which is a belief you should reconsider in a party with a rogue and a warlord: both are classes that need to pay attention to the arrangement of pieces on the battelemat, and use that arrangement to their advantage. Rogues typically need to flank or obtain stealth to get CA for their all-important Sneak Attack. Many of the warlord's bonuses come in the form of repositioning abilities, which might seem useless if you're ignoring the battlemat and just looking at the numbers on the sheets. It's not.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>But if you try out Deft Strike and don't like it, swap it out for Piercing Strike or the Rattling one from Martial Power, by all means.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mr. Teapot, post: 4867660, member: 62191"] A lot of your scenarios ignore the advantages of Deft Strike, when it could be useful. Maybe, or you could use the movement from Deft Strike to get out of cover, make the Deft Strike at range, then use your move action to get back behind cover, regain stealth and ensure Sneak Attack damage. Or you could move to one square away, then Deft Strike to move into a square that isn't the closest adjacent square in order to get flanking. Charges require you go to the closest square you can attack from, which may or may not be the square you can get a flank from. Deft Strike increases the chances that you can get a flank, and/or allows popping in and out of concealment for Stealth fun. Or Deft Strike to move two squares, get in flank for Sneak Attack, and still have a move action left over to shift or run away (possibly into a hiding place for Stealth). Deft strike to reposition yourself either for a flank or farther away from the enemy that dazed you, as needed (and depending on whether you have CA). For a Halfling Artful Dodger rogue, provoking an OA is not a fear. You're more likely to deliberately provoke OAs so the party Defender can counterattack than you are to try to avoid OAs. You're looking at a +5ish bonus versus OAs to begin with, probably higher if you have a decent Cha and/or Defensive Mobility. OAs are your friend, not your enemy. So deft Strike in this case is useful specifically to provoke the enemy (if there's a friendly fighter around) and still get a flank on the enemy you're attacking. No, because charging ends your turn, preventing you from hiding when you're done charging. It goes like this: sit in hiding, leap out with Deft Strike, attack with CA, use your move action to return to hiding. Doesn't work on a charge. In general, you seem to be downplaying the value of positioning. Which is a belief you should reconsider in a party with a rogue and a warlord: both are classes that need to pay attention to the arrangement of pieces on the battelemat, and use that arrangement to their advantage. Rogues typically need to flank or obtain stealth to get CA for their all-important Sneak Attack. Many of the warlord's bonuses come in the form of repositioning abilities, which might seem useless if you're ignoring the battlemat and just looking at the numbers on the sheets. It's not. But if you try out Deft Strike and don't like it, swap it out for Piercing Strike or the Rattling one from Martial Power, by all means. [/QUOTE]
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Does Melee Training make Deft Strike redundant?
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