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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Thanee" data-source="post: 2232866" data-attributes="member: 478">A somewhat late reply... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Why is that bad logic, just because you do not agree with it? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />Well, that depends on how you read it. If you read "another" like "any other", for example, that could mean, any other, not only one that fits into the tight framework of restrictions presented under Alter Self.I read it that way.Sure, that sounds about right. All restrictions set by Alter Self are off, because of that part. Only the explanatory parts of the lesser spell remain, which is quite a bit:- You can change into a member of your own kind or even into yourself.        - You retain your own ability scores. (Note: this part gets overruled by Polymorph) Your class and level, hit points, alignment, base attack bonus, and base save bonuses all remain the same. You retain all supernatural and spell-like special attacks and qualities of your normal form, except for those requiring a body part that the new form does not have (such as a mouth for a breath weapon or eyes for a gaze attack).         - You keep all extraordinary special attacks and qualities derived from class levels, but you lose any from your normal form that are not derived from class levels.         - If the new form is capable of speech, you can communicate normally. You retain any spellcasting ability you had in your original form, but the new form must be able to speak intelligibly (that is, speak a language) to use verbal components and must have limbs capable of fine manipulation to use somatic or material components.         - You acquire the physical qualities of the new form while retaining your own mind. Physical qualities include natural size, mundane movement capabilities (such as burrowing, climbing, walking, swimming, and flight with wings, to a maximum speed of 120 feet for flying or 60 feet for nonflying movement), natural armor bonus, natural weapons (such as claws, bite, and so on), racial skill bonuses, racial bonus feats, and any gross physical qualities (presence or absence of wings, number of extremities, and so forth). A body with extra limbs does not allow you to make more attacks (or more advantageous two-weapon attacks) than normal.         - You do not gain any extraordinary special attacks (Note: this part gets overruled by Polymorph)  or special qualities not noted above under physical qualities, such as darkvision, low-light vision, blindsense, blindsight, fast healing, regeneration, scent, and so forth.         - You do not gain any supernatural special attacks, special qualities, or spell-like abilities of the new form. (Note: this part gets overruled by Polymorph, or rather re-stated)  Your creature type and subtype (if any) remain the same regardless of your new form. (Note: this part gets overruled by Polymorph)  You cannot take the form of any creature with a template, even if that template doesn’t change the creature type or subtype.         - You can freely designate the new form’s minor physical qualities (such as hair color, hair texture, and skin color) within the normal ranges for a creature of that kind. The new form’s significant physical qualities (such as height, weight, and gender) are also under your control, but they must fall within the norms for the new form’s kind. You are effectively disguised as an average member of the new form’s race. If you use this spell to create a disguise, you get a +10 bonus on your Disguise check.         - When the change occurs, your equipment, if any, either remains worn or held by the new form (if it is capable of wearing or holding the item), or melds into the new form and becomes nonfunctional. When you revert to your true form, any objects previously melded into the new form reappear in the same location on your body they previously occupied and are once again functional. Any new items you wore in the assumed form and can’t wear in your normal form fall off and land at your feet; any that you could wear in either form or carry in a body part common to both forms at the time of reversion are still held in the same way. Any part of the body or piece of equipment that is separated from the whole reverts to its true form. That's what Polymorph inherits from Alter Self.Alter Self: You assume the form of a creature of the same type as your normal form. The new form must be within one size category of your normal size. The maximum HD of an assumed form is equal to your caster level, to a maximum of 5 HD at 5th level.Polymorph:                               This spell functions like alter self, except that you change the willing subject into another form of living creature. ...That part obviously has to mean something... it makes no sense, if it just allows you to assume the form of another creature, as that's what Alter Self does already, so it would not even be an exception, then. So, it has to mean something different...And that could be, that it is meant to take away the restrictions of the form, mentioned under Alter Self ("The new form must be within one size category of your normal size. The maximum HD of an assumed form is equal to your caster level, to a maximum of 5 HD at 5th level."), since it allows you to change into another (read: "any other") form of living creature.However, since this would be a bit much, some new (but weaker) restrictions are then stated.- The new form may be of the same type as the subject or any of the following types: aberration, animal, dragon, fey, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, ooze, plant, or vermin.- The assumed form can’t have more Hit Dice than your caster level (or the subject’s HD, whichever is lower), to a maximum of 15 HD at 15th level.- You can’t cause a subject to assume a form smaller than Fine, nor can you cause a subject to assume an incorporeal or gaseous form.Not, if you don't even try to see it that way, no. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />To me, I make perfect sense. My interpretation looks completely consistent to me.Well, you cannot take on any size, just Fine to virtually unlimited, as long as there is a creature of that size within the type and HD restrictions of Polymorph available to change into... maybe they just wanted to be sure, that people don't try to turn into bacteria and stuff like that. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />ByeThanee</blockquote>

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