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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Does Polymorph restrict size-changes?
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<blockquote data-quote="Iku Rex" data-source="post: 2242645" data-attributes="member: 752"><p>(See my above reply to Saeviomagy.)</p><p></p><p>"Simple logic" in bizarro-world, perhaps... :\ </p><p></p><p>Hey, I have an idea for how to explain this! I'll call it "option 1".</p><p></p><p>Option 1: The table is an "equal" part of the spell description. The examples are a roundabout way to convey information about what the spell lets you do (rather than just illustrate it). <span style="font-size: 12px"><strong>In that case, polymorph any object "says otherwise", and any polymorph rule contradicted by the examples doesn't apply to polymorph any object. </strong> </span> This does not help your case, since all it proves is that polymorph any object is not identical to polymorph. (We already knew that.) </p><p></p><p> </p><p><em>The assumed form can’t have more Hit Dice than your caster level (<strong>or the subject’s HD, whichever is lower</strong>), to a maximum of 15 HD at 15th level.-- </em> polymorph</p><p></p><p><em>Shrew to manticore</em>-- polymorph any object</p><p></p><p>I don't know how many HD a shrew has, but I'm sure it's less than a manticore. Thus the above polymorph rule is contradicted. (You can [and I would] argue that only this rule is removed, and not all, but that doesn't help you.) </p><p></p><p>Also note that 3.0 polymorph any object had the same wording, and 3.0 polymorph <em>did </em> unquestionably have a size restriction preventing a shrew-manticore transformation. </p><p></p><p>Huh? </p><p></p><p><em>This spell functions like alter self, except that you change the willing subject into another form of living creature. </em> --polymorph</p><p> </p><p><em>This spell functions like polymorph, except that it changes one object or creature into another [implied: creature or object].</em> -- polymorph any object </p><p></p><p>So the word "another" should be read as "any other" in the first sentence, but the exact same word, in the exact same context should <em>not</em> be read the same way in the second sentence. Looks to me like you're "[ruling] one that way and the other the opposite way"...</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Iku Rex, post: 2242645, member: 752"] (See my above reply to Saeviomagy.) "Simple logic" in bizarro-world, perhaps... :\ Hey, I have an idea for how to explain this! I'll call it "option 1". Option 1: The table is an "equal" part of the spell description. The examples are a roundabout way to convey information about what the spell lets you do (rather than just illustrate it). [SIZE=3][B]In that case, polymorph any object "says otherwise", and any polymorph rule contradicted by the examples doesn't apply to polymorph any object. [/B] [/SIZE] This does not help your case, since all it proves is that polymorph any object is not identical to polymorph. (We already knew that.) [I]The assumed form can’t have more Hit Dice than your caster level ([B]or the subject’s HD, whichever is lower[/B]), to a maximum of 15 HD at 15th level.-- [/I] polymorph [i]Shrew to manticore[/i]-- polymorph any object I don't know how many HD a shrew has, but I'm sure it's less than a manticore. Thus the above polymorph rule is contradicted. (You can [and I would] argue that only this rule is removed, and not all, but that doesn't help you.) Also note that 3.0 polymorph any object had the same wording, and 3.0 polymorph [I]did [/I] unquestionably have a size restriction preventing a shrew-manticore transformation. Huh? [I]This spell functions like alter self, except that you change the willing subject into another form of living creature. [/I] --polymorph [I]This spell functions like polymorph, except that it changes one object or creature into another [implied: creature or object].[/I] -- polymorph any object So the word "another" should be read as "any other" in the first sentence, but the exact same word, in the exact same context should [i]not[/i] be read the same way in the second sentence. Looks to me like you're "[ruling] one that way and the other the opposite way"... [/QUOTE]
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Does Polymorph restrict size-changes?
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