Does Punishing Stance [BO9S] work in a grapple to do damage?

[Erywin]

In the game tonight a situation arose when my Warblade minion tried to grapple and subdue one of the other PCs (had been charmed by a Harpy). Now the Warblade has Punishing Stance (-2 AC, +1d6 to melee attacks). Now as you can make additional grapples with higher BABs and the fact that the SRD says "A grapple check is like a melee attack roll."

I know this is probably been debated in other threads. But would the punishing stance work on a grapple check to do damage? Thanks in advance for the replies.

Cheers,
E

 

[Sejs]

Seems perfectly reasonable to me.

Strength applies to your melee damage rolls, it applies equally to damage you deal while grappling.

I don't see any reason why the same would not be true with Punishing Stance.

 

[pawsplay]

No. If it were a melee attack, it wouldn't be like a melee attack, it would be one. The initial touch is an attack but does no damage.

 

[Erywin]

Changed the title to more directly represent what the situation is.

Cheers,
E

 

[Moon-Lancer]

No. If it were a melee attack, it wouldn't be like a melee attack, it would be one. The initial touch is an attack but does no damage.

That doesn't quite work because the only reason its not an attack role, is because it adds special size modifier to the attack, were normally this is not done. This comes right after the sentience you quoted. their for in all other cases it is like a melee attack and thus acts in every way like a melee attack except for that clarification of why its not like an melee attack.

Thus its my opinion that the stance works in a grapple.

 

[Nifft]

I'm going with no. Punishing stance adds damage to melee attacks, and grapple checks aren't melee attacks.

Cheers, -- N

 

[pawsplay]

That doesn't quite work because the only reason its not an attack role, is because it adds special size modifier to the attack, were normally this is not done. This comes right after the sentience you quoted. their for in all other cases it is like a melee attack and thus acts in every way like a melee attack except for that clarification of why its not like an melee attack.

Thus its my opinion that the stance works in a grapple.

The grapple rules spell out the procedure. Apart from the initial touch, the attack rules are not referenced. Also, check has a specific meaning. Also note that Attack Your Opponent and Damage Your Opponent are separate sections.

 

[blargney the second]

That's funny... this thread has reached about as much consensus as Erywin and I did in-game! *grin*
-blarg

 

[Nyarlathotep]

I'm of the opinion that grappling is different from attacking, so by default would say that Punishing Stance does not add to damage in a grapple. Mechanically, I believe the attack action and the grapple action are two seperate things.

That said, I'm not sure how I would rule it if a character had a light weapon and used the attack option in a grapple. It should allow the bonus damage for PS, but on the other hand I'm not sure I could reconcile it with the flavor text.

It's never come up in my game, because all fighters and fighting-types seem to take the Close-Quarters Fighting feat.

 

[Erywin]

Yeah this generally doesn't come up in our game because the Warblade generally uses a spiked chain. The reason that he was grappling was because the Harpies were leading the charmed players off a 50' cliff and he had to slow them down somehow.

Cheers,
E