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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Dausuul" data-source="post: 6394618" data-attributes="member: 58197">Sure.First of all, remember that the Oberoni fallacy is a fallacy of argument, not anything inherent to the system. It's when someone criticizes a feature of the system, and other people respond not by justifying the feature in question but by saying "You can fix it, so stop moaning."So, with that in mind, let's take the 5E stealth rules.Complaint: "The 5E stealth rules are unclear and ambiguous."Non-Oberoni response: "By leaving the details to the DM, 5E cuts down on rules-lawyering and makes the game run faster and smoother."Oberoni response: "The DM can just interpret the rules, so it's not a problem."The non-Oberoni response presents an affirmative reason (possibly correct, possibly not, but a reason) why the feature under discussion should be the way it is. The Oberoni response doesn't. It admits that the system is putting more work on the DM but doesn't give any case for why this should be so. For another example, take the 3E monk. Lots of folks would tell you that monks in 3E sucked. They were weak in combat. They didn't have much of anything special to do outside combat. They could sneak about as well as a rogue, and they were good at making saving throws, but that was it. They had an impressive-looking list of abilities that were not actually very useful in practice.Complaint: "3E monks suck compared to the other classes."Non-Oberoni response: "Monks don't suck because they're better than anybody else at making saving throws, and they have a higher AC than anybody else when not wearing armor, and they can fall without taking damage whenever they want!"Oberoni response: "The DM can just house-rule them to do more damage, or go out of his/her way to put in encounters that cater to the monk's abilities, so it's not a problem."The non-Oberoni response is fairly silly IMO, but it's an argument which can be debated on the merits. The Oberoni response is tacitly admitting that monks suck and that DMs have to put in extra work to fix them for no good reason.</blockquote>

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