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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hypersmurf" data-source="post: 3548182" data-attributes="member: 1656">Because losing Dex bonus to AC is a game rules concept, and the game rules state that blind targets lose Dex bonus to AC, as do those attacked by the invisible... but are silent on the matter of those attacked by the hiding.  We have a rule that says you apply your Dex modifier to AC.  We don't have a rule that says you lose it if the attacker is hiding... unless we consider that situation to be covered by "provided you can react to the attack".I'm not sure why you consider "The rules don't say you do, like they do for the other situations" to be invalid as a logical reason when discussing the rules.And again, I don't think you can say "can't-be-seen is logically the same, whether it results from blindness, invisibility, or the Hide skill!" and apply that in isolation to Dex bonus to AC without addressing the other questions I raised, and maintain any consistency.I'm more than happy to address them from a "What do the rules actually say?" standpoint.1. Dex bonus to AC is lost when blind or when the attacker is invisible.  Nothing is said directly about losing your Dex bonus vs a hiding attacker.2. Blind-Fight allows you to retain your Dex bonus against an invisible attacker.  Nothing is said about retaining your Dex bonus while blind.  (Or against a hiding attacker, should that prove relevant.)3. The DC 20/30/40 'hunch' Spot check to notice the presence applies to invisible creatures.  Nothing is said about noticing the presence of a hiding creature.  A blind creature automatically fails Spot checks, so he cannot make a 'hunch' Spot check to notice the presence of any nearby creature, invisible, hiding, or otherwise.4. An invisible attacker gains a +2 attack bonus.  Nothing is said about a hiding attacker.  A blind creature takes a -2 AC penalty, but an invisible attacker does not gain the +2 bonus; nothing is said about a hiding attacker (should that prove relevant).-Hyp.</blockquote>

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