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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Old Gumphrey" data-source="post: 3559892" data-attributes="member: 12872">OK I think I figured out the problem here, and the reason there are two camps.Being flat-footed means you are denied your dex bonus regarding ALL attackers. If you're flat-footed, anyone with sneak attack can sneak attack you.-snip-Being invisible means you ignore your target's dex bonus to AC. You don't cause him to be flat-footed. He just doesn't get to use his dex bonus to AC regarding YOU. -snip-While it doesn't specifically say this, your target while you are invisible is effectively flat-footed against your attacks. -snip-While this is completely obvious to most people, I think some people are simply stating the exact RAW and making sure that its clear that if you're invisible, you're not causing other people to be flat-footed. You're just personally ignoring their AC bonuses.So if you hit someone with Flick of the Wrist, that means you and ALL YOUR PALS can sneak attack that poor sap until his next go. If you roll up on someone while you're invisible, and they're already fighting, they don't become flat-footed; you ignore their dex bonus to AC in reference to you. But I don't really think anyone was letting invisible attackers cause the flat-footed condition; they were letting invisible attackers attack their target as if they were flat-footed.I believe the sentence from SRD:translates to "for all intents and purposes, the target is denied its dex bonus to AC in reference to the invisible attacker". It doesn't specifically say this, but that's why English is beautiful, because it has so many synonyms and options. Otherwise, rogues are even worse than they already are, and that is just incomprehensible to me, because they are pretty bad. If I get a sneak attack when I surprise someone, and I get one when I fight dirty and double team someone, why don't I get one when I roll up completely undetected and start chopping?Say I'm in a gun fight with my neighbor. His gun jams. Do I ignore his ability to kill me at range, or is he denied his ability to kill me at range? Or is it both at the same time? Does this matter at all regarding my health? The fact that it doesn't leads me to believe "both at the same time" over "one specific phrasing".I mean the FAQ said as much; that's the intent (and apparently, the interpretation) of the rules. Except it specifically states that you can cast it "when it's not your turn". Hmm. A free action that you can use when it's not your turn. Sounds a lot like an immediate action to me. That's a rule change as much as a kick in the crotch is a slap in the face. "Immediate action" is merely a more concrete concept than "free actions when it isn't your turn". It was designed to save space and be more concise, not change the way existing rules work.</blockquote>

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