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Message: <blockquote data-quote="grufflehead" data-source="post: 5231787" data-attributes="member: 35977">Given how useless and quickly superseded by items and/or spells most skills are in 3.5/PF, I can't see it being an issue. I think being able to choose to take 10 in situations where you were normally forbidden from doing so was a fairly decent level ability for some PrCs I've seen, but by the time you've got access to it, there are very few skills which are going to disrupt the game.I was looking over the skills list in PF the other day and thinking of a similar question. As written, which skills retain their mileage through the game assuming a fairly 'standard' game set-up eg one of the typical Paizo adventure paths where magic in the form of spells and items is freely available? For the sake of discussion, here's how the skills have fared in my experience - feel free to chip in with creative ideas for some of them or point out how they might be used.Acrobatics - now it encompasses Tumble it scales in a combat application as it is opposed by a scaling stat (CMD). Jumping can be topped by a 1st level spell, while taking a D6 off a fall makes no difference after low levels: you'll die from falling off a flying mount at a 1000 feet, or bounce, pick yourself up and go right back at it. Balance is so situational, the main use I used to see for it was countering Grease!Appraise - is there a spell that duplicates it? If not, hardly an issue unless the GM is running a low cash game and likes to screw the PCs for every copper they have.Bluff - has a combat application via Feint. Considering low level spells like Zone of Truth or eventually Discern Lies, or a decent Sense Motive, trump it, then its long term use is questionable.Climb - Spider Climb? Alter Self?Craft - I saw someone on the Paizo boards ask why this and Profession were even still skills. I like it, but from a pure crunch perspective, other than nice flavour, at low levels in very low cash games it has a use, but otherwise...Diplomacy - one of the skills which does retain its utility, but given the poor way social resolution works in D20 type games, having seen PCs with +30 skills by about 5th level who walk into a room and pretty much get anything they want, most GMs I know are very wary around Diplomonsters. Plus, does it beat Charm Person?Disable Device - a true anomaly in as much as if you *don't* have a maxed skill all the way you are asking for trouble unless you have a generous GM who lets traps be circumvented by other meansDisguise - 1st level spell or item easily beats itEscape Artist - potential combat use for escaping grapples but somewhat situational. I have honestly *never* been in or seen a game where, if the PCs are captured and tied up, it's not been for plot purposes, and if they are supposed to escape they will duly do so.Fly - not familiar enough with it as I've never had a PC who has had itHandle Animal - was there not a 3.5 bit of cheese weaselling revolving around maxed Handle Animal and a pack of trained war elephants? Otherwise, possibly useful for a low level PC to have a trained war dog or similar, but unless your Druid or Ranger is regularly sending his/her pet into situations not covered by tricks, then struggling to see the use.Heal - will never top Cure spells for HP, nice for investigative 'how did he die?' type games (until you cast Speak with Dead and ask the body), and the Treat Disease and Poison abilities are not all they are cracked up to be. How many games is the GM routinely trying to poison or inflict something on the characters? 3rd level spells or potions solve the issue permanantlyKnowledges - other than using them to excuse/avoid metagaming ('wow, who knew that monster I've never seen before would react so badly to Holy Water?') they are almost a barrier to games. See the 3 clue rule for how not to have the entire adventure go pear-shaped because Marvo the Wizard rolls a 1 on his Knowledge check at the wrong time. Mid level spells begin to duplicate these eventuallyLinguistics - the old Decipher Script DCs were ludicrous, but Read Magic, Comprehend Languages and Tongues do everything this doesPerception - continues to be worthwhile until monsters with special abilities mean you need magic to detect themPerform - see Craft and ProfessionRide - unless being on the horse gives you a benefit, why be on one at all? Eventually most useful for Paladins, and for people who want to be able to leap off their dying mount when the monster decides the more sensible tactic is to kill it underneath youSense Motive - counters Bluff, but as with some other skills, if the plot demands the bad guy lies his ass off and gets away with it, he's probably got a hipflask of Philter of Glibness (see numerous Arcanis modules...)Sleight of Hand - pass. Picking people's pockets will only get you so far, and if you have a habit of hiding sharp things to stab folk with inside your underwear, you'd be better off taking Quick Draw anywaySpellcraft - I've never seen anyone play a dedicated counterspelling wizard but it seems to be pretty important if you want to do that. Was a replacement for Concentration in the beta, but now casting in combat is a whole heap more difficult so not so much reason for MUs to take it other than to make learning found spells easier (assuming you don't just go and buy what you want)Stealth - I won't rehash the arguments about not being able to sneak around if people are watching you - short of Hide in Plain Sight, get InvisibilitySurvival - required for Tracking so as long as that plays a part in the game it has a useSwim - or sink. UMD - as Harpy says, abusable like no other skill.That makes it look like I'm having a rant, whereas in fact I love skills - every PF character I have takes the skill point for favoured class. However, they really are a pretty weak part of a game unless it is set up for them, low magic etc At this rate I might start feeling sorry for Rogues and stop bitching about Sneak Attack...<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

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