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Does the Artificer Suck?
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<blockquote data-quote="Helldritch" data-source="post: 8176296" data-attributes="member: 6855114"><p>1) I don't hide nothing. Keep your accusations to yourself.</p><p>2) I don't have the newer one, and I am not going to buy an other one for the pleasure of it. I will keep mine as the sole DMG in authority in my games unless I would happen to be agreeing with the change from a logical perspective. The rule was clear from the beginning. No need to change it as logic was respected.</p><p>3) For some, you have to have the scroll already in hands. So now you have to have the scroll in hand... Check what would happen in my games.</p><p></p><p>The wizard Notsofasthand was carrying his scroll of counterspell in his hands. The big goblin Hitallthetime saw the scroll and knew that it was important that this thing got destroyed fast. Sneakily, Hitallthetime, got behind our poor Notsofasthand and snatched the scroll from his hands. Using the rest of his movement, Hitallthetime, put the scroll to torch by placing it in a pit fire, an already lit torch or simply tears it down and gobbles a part of it exactly as he was instructed by his master.</p><p></p><p>Or even this: The wizard Notsofasthand, who wants to be prepared to all eventualities, carries his scroll of featherfall just in case in his hands. Comes an invisible hidden kobold sorcer of no small fame going by the name Marksmankobie that recognize that the scroll might be something dangerous. Not taking any chance, our Kobold sorcer shoots the scrolls with a firebolt. Notsofasthand tries to protect the scroll instinctively, but even if the scrolls was a small thing and Notsofasthand provided a 3/4 cover, Maksmankobie hit the scroll with a critical and puff in flames goes the scroll...</p><p></p><p>So holding a scroll of "X" just in case is ripe for getting it destroyed.</p><p>Allowing this rule is opening the game for a potential abuse.</p><p>A scroll of Counterspell takes about one week to create and costs 500gp. In many games, downtime can extend from a few days, to a few years. With that amount of time, it is not impossible to see a wizard (or sorcer or whatever that can scribe scrolls and cast counterspell) have a dozen or so such scrolls at the ready (and even more than that if the DM is especially generous with money) Hell, the player could also buy these scrolls at the nearest mage's guild as such an item would be in ultra high demand!</p><p>The advantages of such a way to use scrolls is almost too much.</p><p>1) Have the scroll in hand along with your wand (focus).</p><p>2) Cast the counterspell without using a spell slot.</p><p>3) On your turn, free interaction, take a new scroll of counter spell.</p><p>4) Rinse and repeat for every possible caster that can do such a thing in the group. I have six players, and often, two of them can counter spell with their spell slots. Imagine if a free use of a scroll could be done this way. No lich, no evil wizard, no evil priest would ever be able to get a spell out... The principle of the casting BBEG is to forget if you play scroll usage this way.</p><p></p><p>I do not know what led to that modification, but it was not a thoroughly thought one and it was definitively not playtested. The potential abuse is staggering. Feel free to disagree. I know powergamers that would destroy campaigns if their DM would allow such possible scroll usage.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Helldritch, post: 8176296, member: 6855114"] 1) I don't hide nothing. Keep your accusations to yourself. 2) I don't have the newer one, and I am not going to buy an other one for the pleasure of it. I will keep mine as the sole DMG in authority in my games unless I would happen to be agreeing with the change from a logical perspective. The rule was clear from the beginning. No need to change it as logic was respected. 3) For some, you have to have the scroll already in hands. So now you have to have the scroll in hand... Check what would happen in my games. The wizard Notsofasthand was carrying his scroll of counterspell in his hands. The big goblin Hitallthetime saw the scroll and knew that it was important that this thing got destroyed fast. Sneakily, Hitallthetime, got behind our poor Notsofasthand and snatched the scroll from his hands. Using the rest of his movement, Hitallthetime, put the scroll to torch by placing it in a pit fire, an already lit torch or simply tears it down and gobbles a part of it exactly as he was instructed by his master. Or even this: The wizard Notsofasthand, who wants to be prepared to all eventualities, carries his scroll of featherfall just in case in his hands. Comes an invisible hidden kobold sorcer of no small fame going by the name Marksmankobie that recognize that the scroll might be something dangerous. Not taking any chance, our Kobold sorcer shoots the scrolls with a firebolt. Notsofasthand tries to protect the scroll instinctively, but even if the scrolls was a small thing and Notsofasthand provided a 3/4 cover, Maksmankobie hit the scroll with a critical and puff in flames goes the scroll... So holding a scroll of "X" just in case is ripe for getting it destroyed. Allowing this rule is opening the game for a potential abuse. A scroll of Counterspell takes about one week to create and costs 500gp. In many games, downtime can extend from a few days, to a few years. With that amount of time, it is not impossible to see a wizard (or sorcer or whatever that can scribe scrolls and cast counterspell) have a dozen or so such scrolls at the ready (and even more than that if the DM is especially generous with money) Hell, the player could also buy these scrolls at the nearest mage's guild as such an item would be in ultra high demand! The advantages of such a way to use scrolls is almost too much. 1) Have the scroll in hand along with your wand (focus). 2) Cast the counterspell without using a spell slot. 3) On your turn, free interaction, take a new scroll of counter spell. 4) Rinse and repeat for every possible caster that can do such a thing in the group. I have six players, and often, two of them can counter spell with their spell slots. Imagine if a free use of a scroll could be done this way. No lich, no evil wizard, no evil priest would ever be able to get a spell out... The principle of the casting BBEG is to forget if you play scroll usage this way. I do not know what led to that modification, but it was not a thoroughly thought one and it was definitively not playtested. The potential abuse is staggering. Feel free to disagree. I know powergamers that would destroy campaigns if their DM would allow such possible scroll usage. [/QUOTE]
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