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Does the Artificer Suck?
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<blockquote data-quote="Ashrym" data-source="post: 8178095" data-attributes="member: 6750235"><p>I'll illustrate to save time. Bob the artificer (alchemist) turns 11th level and wants to use the SSI.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Bob looks at the spell list and decides levitate is a good option.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The effect for levitate includes a CON save so Bob needs the rule for the saving throw that's included in that part of the spell effect. Bob looks in chapter 10 of his PHB and finds the rule.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Bob gives the SSI to Marley the fighter. Marley uses the SSI to levitate the evil assassin Dargoon. Marley looks up how this works in his PHB and sees what is quoted above. The spell effect for levitate states the target is required to make a CON save. The rules for spell casting in chapter 10 of the PHB state the formula is 8 + 4 (Marley's proficiency bonus as an 11th level fighter) + 5 (Bob's INT bonus as per the SSI modification to the general formula found in chapter 10 to which levitate refers) for a 17 DC save requirement.</p><p></p><p>Marley also notices the spell attack rules and formula are right underneath the saving throw rules in the same section. ;-)</p><p></p><p>It's RAW because all of the spell effects that the SSI would use tell the player how to apply the INT modifier in the spell description, and those spell descriptions use the general rules for DC's and attacks given.</p><p></p><p>If the SSI was cure wound instead Marley would heal someone d8+5 because the spell dictates how the ability modifier is applied. The SSI only dictates which ability modifier to use; nothing more.</p><p></p><p>Bob casting cure wounds (as an alchemist) would heal d8+10 using alchemist supplies while a typical bard would use the same slot for d8+5 getting back to our comparisons.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ashrym, post: 8178095, member: 6750235"] I'll illustrate to save time. Bob the artificer (alchemist) turns 11th level and wants to use the SSI. Bob looks at the spell list and decides levitate is a good option. The effect for levitate includes a CON save so Bob needs the rule for the saving throw that's included in that part of the spell effect. Bob looks in chapter 10 of his PHB and finds the rule. Bob gives the SSI to Marley the fighter. Marley uses the SSI to levitate the evil assassin Dargoon. Marley looks up how this works in his PHB and sees what is quoted above. The spell effect for levitate states the target is required to make a CON save. The rules for spell casting in chapter 10 of the PHB state the formula is 8 + 4 (Marley's proficiency bonus as an 11th level fighter) + 5 (Bob's INT bonus as per the SSI modification to the general formula found in chapter 10 to which levitate refers) for a 17 DC save requirement. Marley also notices the spell attack rules and formula are right underneath the saving throw rules in the same section. ;-) It's RAW because all of the spell effects that the SSI would use tell the player how to apply the INT modifier in the spell description, and those spell descriptions use the general rules for DC's and attacks given. If the SSI was cure wound instead Marley would heal someone d8+5 because the spell dictates how the ability modifier is applied. The SSI only dictates which ability modifier to use; nothing more. Bob casting cure wounds (as an alchemist) would heal d8+10 using alchemist supplies while a typical bard would use the same slot for d8+5 getting back to our comparisons. [/QUOTE]
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