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<blockquote data-quote="Ashrym" data-source="post: 8379329" data-attributes="member: 6750235">It's not 1d8 to cantrips for artillerists.&nbsp; It's 1d8 to spells cast through the arcane firearm.&nbsp; That's better than the bonus to cantrips other classes get.The spells coming earlier doesn't create more spell slots to use them or make them more effective and shatter was a spell brought up.&nbsp; I don't disagree that faster spell progression is a benefit, but what is the benefit for save-for-effect spells both progressions allow?&nbsp; Artificers abilities rely on less limited resources than a few high level spells.We're back and looking at what artificers don't have compared to full casters and pretending artificers don't have other advantages instead.There's no requirement to take a short rest.&nbsp; It's a good idea to take a short rest in order to spend HD for healing, however; a benefit all class have in taking those rests.The cannon damage isn't poor.&nbsp; It's bonus damage that turns damage above the cantrip baseline into good damage.&nbsp; The option to use it for temp hp is also useful, and brings the cantrips down to typical cantrip damage plus temp hp.&nbsp; How is that bad?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ashrym, post: 8379329, member: 6750235"] It's not 1d8 to cantrips for artillerists. It's 1d8 to spells cast through the arcane firearm. That's better than the bonus to cantrips other classes get. The spells coming earlier doesn't create more spell slots to use them or make them more effective and shatter was a spell brought up. I don't disagree that faster spell progression is a benefit, but what is the benefit for save-for-effect spells both progressions allow? Artificers abilities rely on less limited resources than a few high level spells. We're back and looking at what artificers don't have compared to full casters and pretending artificers don't have other advantages instead. There's no requirement to take a short rest. It's a good idea to take a short rest in order to spend HD for healing, however; a benefit all class have in taking those rests. The cannon damage isn't poor. It's bonus damage that turns damage above the cantrip baseline into good damage. The option to use it for temp hp is also useful, and brings the cantrips down to typical cantrip damage plus temp hp. How is that bad? [/QUOTE]

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