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<blockquote data-quote="MostlyHarmless42" data-source="post: 7281457" data-attributes="member: 6845520">I was referring to magic in general, not just suggestion. The rules as intended behind spellcasting is that they should be obvious. It is the point of subtle spell existing as an ability to allow on the sly casting (as I said in my first post). As far as verbal components go, you can rule it as if Jedi mind trick, but even then it's still an obvious command word being spoken out loud to anyone else observing. In the case of literal Jedi Mind trick, they use an obvious somatic hand gesture as well (albeit suggestion as you said has no somatic). In the case of material, yes, a focus will replace the material but that just it, you still have to HOLD it openly.Want to know whats the first thing I order my Guards to do as a noble lord in a world were magic actually exists? Give them standing orders to attack anyone waving or pointing a wand/stick/orb/weird &quot;magic thingy&quot; around in my presence unless I say otherwise. Doubly so if I or they can't tell the difference between a healing spell or a fireball. The scene with Theodan in Lord of the Rings is a prime example of this, albeit Gandalf helps him out. He only succeeds because his guards disobey a direct order to not take his staff away.Albeit, animals and less intelligent creatures are likely easier to fool in this regard.The point I was making in regards to the original post is that the intended rules are that when a spell is cast (short of using subtle spell or an appropriate componentless spell) any creature of at least moderate intelligence knows that the creature cast something. Not what spell that is, or who make what save or what not (albeit I always rule a caster knows if a save succeeds or not), etc.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="MostlyHarmless42, post: 7281457, member: 6845520"] I was referring to magic in general, not just suggestion. The rules as intended behind spellcasting is that they should be obvious. It is the point of subtle spell existing as an ability to allow on the sly casting (as I said in my first post). As far as verbal components go, you can rule it as if Jedi mind trick, but even then it's still an obvious command word being spoken out loud to anyone else observing. In the case of literal Jedi Mind trick, they use an obvious somatic hand gesture as well (albeit suggestion as you said has no somatic). In the case of material, yes, a focus will replace the material but that just it, you still have to HOLD it openly. Want to know whats the first thing I order my Guards to do as a noble lord in a world were magic actually exists? Give them standing orders to attack anyone waving or pointing a wand/stick/orb/weird "magic thingy" around in my presence unless I say otherwise. Doubly so if I or they can't tell the difference between a healing spell or a fireball. The scene with Theodan in Lord of the Rings is a prime example of this, albeit Gandalf helps him out. He only succeeds because his guards disobey a direct order to not take his staff away. Albeit, animals and less intelligent creatures are likely easier to fool in this regard. The point I was making in regards to the original post is that the intended rules are that when a spell is cast (short of using subtle spell or an appropriate componentless spell) any creature of at least moderate intelligence knows that the creature cast something. Not what spell that is, or who make what save or what not (albeit I always rule a caster knows if a save succeeds or not), etc. [/QUOTE]

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