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<blockquote data-quote="The Crimson Binome" data-source="post: 7286200" data-attributes="member: 6775031">I don't think this is necessarily the right place to have this discussion. Without worrying about the details of how you quantify luck, though, the question goes back to one of narration: If the PC shoots that necromancer with an arrow for 30 damage, do you narrate that differently than if they shoot the necromancer with an arrow for 15 damage? Or are both of them just equally glancing blows? Is the difference in damage observable within the game world?I would wager that at most tables, and certainly within the design intent, the players are expected to be given the numbers whenever they give or take damage. And since this edition actually does include rules that condemn meta-gaming, that means their characters can probably also observe the difference. (You could argue that the players should be told the numbers, but should then ignore them when making decisions, but I don't think that's feasible or intended.)If the difference between 15 damage and 30 damage is observable - if you would narrate them in different ways, such as to convey the difference in their severity to the players - then they can tell whether or not someone made their save against a fireball. And if they can tell when someone makes their save against fireball, then that sets some sort of precedent about whether or not saving against a spell is generally observable.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="The Crimson Binome, post: 7286200, member: 6775031"] I don't think this is necessarily the right place to have this discussion. Without worrying about the details of how you quantify luck, though, the question goes back to one of narration: If the PC shoots that necromancer with an arrow for 30 damage, do you narrate that [I]differently[/I] than if they shoot the necromancer with an arrow for 15 damage? Or are both of them just equally glancing blows? Is the difference in damage [I]observable[/I] within the game world? I would wager that at most tables, and certainly within the design intent, the players [I]are[/I] expected to be given the numbers whenever they give or take damage. And since this edition actually [I]does[/I] include rules that condemn meta-gaming, that means their characters can probably [I]also[/I] observe the difference. (You could argue that the players should be told the numbers, but should then ignore them when making decisions, but I don't think that's feasible or intended.) If the difference between 15 damage and 30 damage is observable - if you would narrate them in different ways, such as to convey the difference in their severity to the players - then they can tell whether or not someone made their save against a fireball. And if they can tell when someone makes their save against fireball, then that sets some sort of precedent about whether or not saving against a spell is generally observable. [/QUOTE]

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