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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Bauglir" data-source="post: 830386" data-attributes="member: 6982">Well I DO think the monk sucks.The reason I think this is because their abilities focus largely on defense, and even in this area they have a flaw.BAB - While a monk might not be a front line fighter they ARE supposed to be a fighting class, however, with the monk's dreadful BAB, any monks I've seen rain down miss after miss after miss.Damage - Monks' damage output is pathetic compared to most other core classes.  Sure, they punch for d20 at high levels, but a same level fighter will still far exceed this with their bonuses from various sources such as weapon specialization, and the various magical effects on their weapons...AC - This is the monk's biggest defensive weakness.  Their AC is NOT high enough to protect them from the attacks they may draw.  A monk with both a dex AND wisdom of 18 will still have a lower AC than a same level fighter with full plate and a dex of 12.  Also this creates a heavy dependance on items such as bracers of armor, or amulets of natural armor to try and keep their AC high enough to protect them from power attacks.Ki strike - A monk gains the ability to pierce DR x/+1 at level 10, or use a monk weapon, all of which deal only d6 damage.  Meanwhile other fighting classes are enjoying their full effectiveness with magic weapons from as low as level 3 or 4.Special abilities - I have never seen a stunning fist attack actually stun anything.  Firstly, it needs to actually LAND (see BAB), and secondly, the target has to make a not-that-difficult fortitude save.  Color spray has a much better chance of working, AND it affects multiple targets.... A lot of the other abilities are equally underwhelming, and are typically weaker versions of other classes' abilities.The inherent problem with playing a defensive fighter in a group - If I'm the monster, or enemy under attack from the PCs, will Ia) attack Mr Mobile, who's leaping about making himself difficult to hit, and not actually doing much to me (see damage)..ORb) ignore Mr Mobile, and go kill that wizard that just fireballed me.This is all IMO (and IME) of course, and only considering the Core monk class (no PrCs)YMMV</blockquote>

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