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<blockquote data-quote="Shikami" data-source="post: 5445669" data-attributes="member: 6669047">First off you are on the path to understanding this.&nbsp; The problem is you are making it too complicated.&nbsp; The semantics are simple.&nbsp; On page 106 there are only three targets-plain and simple.&nbsp; The targets define how to understand them.&nbsp; Now the excepetion to everything is this:&nbsp; Specific beats general.As an origin square (melee, close, range, area) you have to understand what validates a target.&nbsp; There are only three types and these types have specific responses to the power.&nbsp; There is creature, enemy, and ally.&nbsp; This is it, unless a specific is noted or required by power.&nbsp; Such as bloodied ally, prone, etc.&nbsp; These are the defined terms plain and simple.&nbsp; They do not go further than this (unless specific).&nbsp; So, no, &quot;you/self (personal powers define this)&quot; is not a valid target, unless it is specific for such.&nbsp; You have to think you or the power are the origin square-that is it.&nbsp; And then a target.Incorrect, this is me explaining the semantics of a target.&nbsp; Read page 105 &quot;Choosing Targets&quot;&nbsp; first.&nbsp; Now, creature pg 106:&nbsp; &quot;means a creature of any sort, whether it is an enemy or an ally of the power's user.&quot;&nbsp; This is it.&nbsp; Creature by defined terms can be BOTH-this is it.&nbsp; Not one or the other as it is with enemy, or ally.&nbsp; e.g.:&nbsp; If &quot;Target:&nbsp; is ally in&nbsp; burst.&quot;&nbsp; Origin square cannot target enemy nor creature and power has an optional affect if so desired by targeted ally (Note the specific.&nbsp; Since it is ally, singular.&nbsp; It of course can only target an ally not allies).&nbsp; If &quot;Target:&nbsp; is creature in burst.&quot;&nbsp; Origin square can target an ally or an enemy with ally having no option to disregard the affect.&nbsp; If &quot;Target:&nbsp; is enemy in burst.&quot;&nbsp; Origin square cannot target creature nor ally.&nbsp; if &quot;Target:&nbsp; is each creature.&quot;&nbsp; There is no distinction between enemy and ally, and also the ally cannot disregard the affect.Again, reading too far into it with no regard for the semantics.&nbsp; If the specific targets you/self/personal-which you will see in the power's resolutions if so-then you/self/personal is a valid target.&nbsp; If not, you only have creature, enemy and ally using your origin square as what is needed to see if line of effect, line of sight, cover and concealment take place.It is very relevant and you are very incorrect.&nbsp; Not only that you are blatantly excluding the rules mechanic, but what is funny is you disregard my statement only to say that which I said &quot;All melee cares about is if the target is in range.&quot;&nbsp; First off for melee to work you have to have all the basics, such as capable to take actions, target, et al.&nbsp; Second-which is the most important-you have to have line of effect.&nbsp; If you do not, you cannot attack the target!&nbsp; Melee 2 does not mean you cannot attack melee 1.&nbsp; Melee 2 means (as I said in previous example):&nbsp; 2 squares adjacent from the origin square.&nbsp; Meaning anything in the 1 or 2 square adjacent to the origin square.&nbsp; Note, that there is no addition with reach to this melee range.You cannot target yourself at all.&nbsp; You are not the target and the origin square, unless specific is given.Incorrect see above.&nbsp; To note though, you are on the right path when you are finally thinking that you are not the origin square,a target, but the lose it after that.Incorrect see above.&nbsp; The powers, in general, do not have a mechanism for attacking oneself.&nbsp; However, nothing says that it cannot be adjudicated to create such in your game.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Shikami, post: 5445669, member: 6669047"] First off you are on the path to understanding this. The problem is you are making it too complicated. The semantics are simple. On page 106 there are only three targets-plain and simple. The targets define how to understand them. Now the excepetion to everything is this: Specific beats general. As an origin square (melee, close, range, area) you have to understand what validates a target. There are only three types and these types have specific responses to the power. There is creature, enemy, and ally. This is it, unless a specific is noted or required by power. Such as bloodied ally, prone, etc. These are the defined terms plain and simple. They do not go further than this (unless specific). So, no, "you/self (personal powers define this)" is not a valid target, unless it is specific for such. You have to think you or the power are the origin square-that is it. And then a target. Incorrect, this is me explaining the semantics of a target. Read page 105 "Choosing Targets" first. Now, creature pg 106: "means a creature of any sort, whether it is an enemy or an ally of the power's user." This is it. Creature by defined terms can be [I]BOTH[/I]-this is it. Not one or the other as it is with enemy, or ally. e.g.: If "Target: is ally in burst." Origin square cannot target enemy nor creature and power has an optional affect if so desired by targeted ally (Note the specific. Since it is ally, singular. It of course can only target an ally not allies). If "Target: is creature in burst." Origin square can target an ally or an enemy with ally having no option to disregard the affect. If "Target: is enemy in burst." Origin square cannot target creature nor ally. if "Target: is each creature." There is no distinction between enemy and ally, and also the ally cannot disregard the affect. Again, reading too far into it with no regard for the semantics. If the specific targets you/self/personal-which you will see in the power's resolutions if so-then you/self/personal is a valid target. If not, you only have creature, enemy and ally using your origin square as what is needed to see if line of effect, line of sight, cover and concealment take place. It is very relevant and you are very incorrect. Not only that you are blatantly excluding the rules mechanic, but what is funny is you disregard my statement only to say that which I said "All melee cares about is if the target is in range." First off for melee to work you have to have all the basics, such as capable to take actions, target, et al. Second-which is the most important-you have to have line of effect. If you do not, you cannot attack the target! Melee 2 does not mean you cannot attack melee 1. Melee 2 means (as I said in previous example): 2 squares adjacent from the origin square. Meaning anything in the 1 or 2 square adjacent to the origin square. Note, that there is no addition with reach to this melee range. You cannot target yourself at all. You are not the target and the origin square, unless specific is given. Incorrect see above. To note though, you are on the right path when you are finally thinking that you are not the origin square,a target, but the lose it after that. Incorrect see above. The powers, in general, do not have a mechanism for attacking oneself. However, nothing says that it cannot be adjudicated to create such in [U][I]your game[/I][/U]. [/QUOTE]

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