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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Shikami" data-source="post: 5445977" data-attributes="member: 6669047">Incorrect.  A target creature is enemy or ally.  Now, if this was a fireball-as with a previous example-the origin square targets creatures.  Meaning, you as in ally, because you are an ally to origin square which targets you as in creature.  You did not target yourself.  It targets you.  This is the issue that many of you are having.It is not my logic it is the game's, and yes.  Specific beats general.  An easy example is bloodied enemy.  The target cannot be an enemy nor can it be a creature.  It has to be a bloodied enemy.  If it said bloodied creature it can be enemy or ally.  Very simple logic really.<a href="http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/whether" target="_blank">Whether - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary</a>  (meaning enemy or ally)  Simple logic again and the defined terms given in the rules.Incorrect.  Creature is the defined target.  Creature is an enemy or ally.  Very relevant and logical-as per the rules.Ad hominem and creature is not you for you are, generally, the origin square.  Creature is target which is enemy or ally.Incorrect the power, unless specific, does not target.  You the origin square using the power targets either a creature, enemy or ally, as specified by power.Incorrect.  If you are incapable of taking action(s) the creature only does start of a turn and the end of a turn for the creature.   It cannot do action of a turn.  Pg 197-199Lay down a battlemat, and drop two minis adjacent to each other for melee combat.  Draw a line of effect as per pg 107.Incorrect.  Origin square is pg 99 (And also on 101, 102, 104).Yes, it is the creator's space!  Wow, you actually have the logic here.  This is what I have been saying in every post.  One thing a burst does happen in the origin square, but!:  "Unless a power indicates otherwise, a close burst does not affect the creator. Even though the burst does include the origin square (normally the creators space)."  Therefore, I am correct.  Pg 105:  The target must meet the power's target definition.  Pg 106: Creature means a creature of any sort, whether it is an enemy or ally of the power's user.  Then there is enemy and then there is ally.  It is not saying creature=anything.  It is meaning creature of any sort of the two targets, whether enemy or ally.  Sort meaning "group" permutation.  E.g.:  you can have 6 creatures, three are allies and three are enemies.  Semantics.Every post I have made has had examples and resolve of the powers.  Therefore, the mechanisms are indeed there, logical, and semantical.  I can prove easily it Target=creature, enemy or ally.  You are the creator, the origin square.  Origin square does not=target.  Because target is creature, enemy, or ally.  Unless specific beats general.Your logic is not equal to the gaming defined terms for a proper rebuttal, but I will entertain this question because:  Actually you are being obtuse-note grammar.  The context is missing.  Meaning you wish to lay a trap by not giving specifics of the situation and rather argue semantics.  However, by the statement you mean any (note, you left "A", as in A "any" member out of the statement and assuming this was an error in typing) member of "this club" even if they are one of these two houses can come to your party.  Meaning that you may be addressing someone that has issue or even prejudice with the invitation(s).  However, creature is not the same.  They mean by sort of the two targets:  enemy or ally.Now, that I have entertained your question.  I would like you debunk my Dimensional Vortex post, actually any of you.  Where do you find error with it, if any actually existing.  Not by your adjudicating terms, but by the defined terms of the game only, as I have done.</blockquote>

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