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<blockquote data-quote="phloog" data-source="post: 5447670" data-attributes="member: 59219">Shikami: You say &quot;You cannot attack Melee 0 unless specified&quot; - can you point me to the page that says what you are saying here.&nbsp; Based on the definition of &quot;within&quot;, I still see your thinking as out of whack here.Assume Melee 2 is the case - - are you suggesting that Melee 2 attacks cannot attack adjacent creatures unless the attack specifically calls it out?What about Ranged attacks, with a Range of 8 squares....must each power specifically state &quot;...Oh!&nbsp; And this also can hit creatures 7 squares away....oh!oh!&nbsp; and 6 squares away too...and five!!!........&quot;?I create a creature called the Lungmuskie...it attacks by latching onto your chest.&nbsp; It is the most deadly creature in the world, because it moves into your square to latch on, and since it is in your square you are hopeless to attack it unless you have a power with a range/melee of exactly zero, because while I can freely stab/shoot/blast enemies adjacent to me, once they are right on top of me I am powerless.Again...three squares away is WITHIN a range of 5 squares, two squares away is WITHIN a range of nine squares, and ZERO squares away is WITHIN a range of one square.&nbsp;&nbsp; Any other interpretation is not supported by any RULES, only by your statement that someone cannot attack Melee 0 unless they have an attack that specifically says &quot;Melee 1 - - OOH! and Also zero!&quot;Show me the rule, not your own statement, that says that you cannot attack melee 0 with a melee 1 attack...heck, even your own quote snippet has a flipped logic...Saying that Melee 0 can only attack your own square does not mean that no other Melee X can NOT attack your own square.&nbsp; And the Melee 1 bit uses the phrase &quot;normally&quot; and mentions adjacent not to say you can't hit CLOSER than that, but to - oddly enough - show what is NORMALLY done with Melee 1.&nbsp; Because of the word WITHIN, and because the rules never specifically call out EACH and EVERY range that can be hit, only giving the OUTER LIMIT, then unless you show me text that says &quot;Melee 0 is the one that defies all the logic...to hit someone in your square you must have an attack that specifically says so&quot;Again....try this one:&nbsp; Do you HONESTLY think if you went up to one of the designers and told them your reasoning that they would say that was their intent?&nbsp; &quot;Oh, yes, Shikami...we wanted any creature that could enter your space to be immune to any attacks other than the ones we specifically labeled as Melee 0&quot;</blockquote>

[QUOTE="phloog, post: 5447670, member: 59219"] Shikami: You say "You cannot attack Melee 0 unless specified" - can you point me to the page that says what you are saying here. Based on the definition of "within", I still see your thinking as out of whack here. Assume Melee 2 is the case - - are you suggesting that Melee 2 attacks cannot attack adjacent creatures unless the attack specifically calls it out? What about Ranged attacks, with a Range of 8 squares....must each power specifically state "...Oh! And this also can hit creatures 7 squares away....oh!oh! and 6 squares away too...and five!!!........"? I create a creature called the Lungmuskie...it attacks by latching onto your chest. It is the most deadly creature in the world, because it moves into your square to latch on, and since it is in your square you are hopeless to attack it unless you have a power with a range/melee of exactly zero, because while I can freely stab/shoot/blast enemies adjacent to me, once they are right on top of me I am powerless. Again...three squares away is WITHIN a range of 5 squares, two squares away is WITHIN a range of nine squares, and ZERO squares away is WITHIN a range of one square. Any other interpretation is not supported by any RULES, only by your statement that someone cannot attack Melee 0 unless they have an attack that specifically says "Melee 1 - - OOH! and Also zero!" Show me the rule, not your own statement, that says that you cannot attack melee 0 with a melee 1 attack...heck, even your own quote snippet has a flipped logic...Saying that Melee 0 can only attack your own square does not mean that no other Melee X can NOT attack your own square. And the Melee 1 bit uses the phrase "normally" and mentions adjacent not to say you can't hit CLOSER than that, but to - oddly enough - show what is NORMALLY done with Melee 1. Because of the word WITHIN, and because the rules never specifically call out EACH and EVERY range that can be hit, only giving the OUTER LIMIT, then unless you show me text that says "Melee 0 is the one that defies all the logic...to hit someone in your square you must have an attack that specifically says so" Again....try this one: Do you HONESTLY think if you went up to one of the designers and told them your reasoning that they would say that was their intent? "Oh, yes, Shikami...we wanted any creature that could enter your space to be immune to any attacks other than the ones we specifically labeled as Melee 0" [/QUOTE]

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