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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Dannyalcatraz" data-source="post: 3276310" data-attributes="member: 19675">An in game discussion would not neccessarily reveal a PC's class, true- we have a "Legitimate Businessman" AKA "Merchant" in our party, after all.But you're still not quite getting it- it doesn't matter if its metagaming or not- its not the PC that is angry, its the player who is POed that your "Priest" either can't or won't turn undead when 99.99999% of all priests in the campaign can.  The guy has just thrown his Fighter into the fray against Ghouls & Ghasts thinking your "Priest" is going to take some of them out of the combat only to find that support completely absent...And telling him that your Priest is actually a Sorcerer or Bard with skill points in Religion isn't likely to improve things.The hypothetical discussion I posted could occur either in game or after the game- it doesn't matter when the player finds out about that detail. Where is the flaw?  The source material is, AFAIK, devoid of dangerous undead of the kind that show up in D&D.  I don't see how making this character unable to affect them is unsound- its consistent with the source material. and: One thing almost everyone in the group agrees upon is the strong distinction between arcane & divine.  To us, its not mere mechanics.  But its more than that.  While it is true that a Bard or any other PC could be a member of a religion's heirarchy, the term "Priest" would properly refer to a person who is fully functional within the belief.Realistically, the low-level spell lists are so divergent that even a commoner would be suspicious if the "Priest" he was talking to couldn't even "Bless" him (or perform all those other little magic rituals that demand divine magic)- it smacks of someone who doesn't actually have his god's ear*.  A liar.  An "oath-breaker"- perhaps someone sent by his god's adversary to twist the hearts and minds of the faithful...Consider similar distinctions in real-world religions: in Catholosism (my faith), I could become an "Altar Server" or "Eucharistic Minister" with only a couple of training sessions (and a security clearance), or even "Deacon" with a year or so of training, but unless and until I take the proper classes (several years of study), take certain oaths, and recieve the sacrament of Holy Orders, I cannot call myself a "Priest" in the Catholic faith.  Even a Nun, also bound by holy vows, cannot call herself a Priest.Other faiths have similar distinctions- like Vicars and Vergers- or have distinctions between those who are "initiates" who may still be free to do some things (travel outside the monestary, get married & have a family), but will lose those rights while gaining certain duties once a certain set of vows is taken. The fighter you mentioned would be analogous to a Deacon.  He can do certain things within the faith, but not all of them, and as such, his advancement within the heirarchy would be limited.In an FRPG, with spells and prayers, etc. having real effects, a "fully functional" Priest demands a connection to divine casting ability.  Anything less than that is not a true Priest, but a member of the lay ministry.  Its the difference between the guy who gives you some healing herbs and the guy who calls the storms down at just the right time to ensure a good harvest.This is where I was aiming- someone who has made the commitment to faith strongly enough to be a true "Priest."  He's made the sacrifices.  He's done the studying.  He's been through the rituals.  Now, he's able to fully serve his people as a conduit to the divine...and vice versa.(PLUS there is the other factor of the DM ruling that to be a priest in the campaign, you must be a divine caster.  No bard or sorcerer priests- end of story.) Sure, and in such a case, I probably would build the PC with either some Bard or Sorcerer levels.* The exception would be, of course, those faiths like the "Old Faith"- Druidism, which are centered around animal/plant/elemental magic.  But the point stands- even a commoner can distinguish between arcane and divine magics by their effects alone.</blockquote>

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