Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Felix" data-source="post: 3277811" data-attributes="member: 3929">I misunderstand nothing. You require your "fully fledged priests" to be able to cast divine spells. You do not link the badge of office to the knowledge retained by the individual, nor their ability with people, nor their skill in healing the sick and comforting the dying, nor the quality with which they give sermons or spread the word. You instead only require spells. I think that there are more interesting ways of determining someone's fitness to be a priest than rubber-stamping them if they can cast Bless.I suggest that your campaign world will be overrun with PC classes; if every religion's heirarchy required the casting of divine spells, then there would either be very few religions indeed because all of the Cleric classed NPCs were filling the ranks of one church, or there would be hardly any heirarchies at all. Or you wouldn't be able to swing a cat by the tail without hitting a PC classed NPC.And he didn't do a very good job at killing the undead from a distance with his bang-bang spells. Why don't you have your poor melee PC's player compain to him. Or to the archer. Or maybe realize that priest (in-game, profession) =/= cleric (class, game mechanic), and he made a calculated risk by charging undead. And if he keeps whining, then tell him to roll up another elf and grow up.So you don't have a problem with a culture that never encounters undead.And your problem with the cleric class is that when you do encounter undead, your fellow players will be upset with you for not turning because now they've died.And you're unwilling for your cleric to discover that he does have power over undead, but he simply never realized it because he's never encountered them before.Ok. But it's you that's making that choice to hobble yourself.I have no problem with a religious culture that has no exposure to malevolent undead having no power over them.This is not all you do. You also reject the notion that priests of a god whose worshippers have had no exposure to undead may discover powers they had hitherto had no opportunity to use. You say that because your character has had no exposure, he must not have power over them. Unless a commoner can tell the difference between the mechancis of a Bard's Break Enchantment and a Cleric's Remove Curse, which is metagame knowledge, then that commoner won't be able to discriminate that the two were different at all.The commoner has no knowledge of spell lists. Or material components. Or the mechanical difference twixt arcane and divine. The only thing he can see are the effects. And if the effects are the same, as they would be with those two spells confronting a Bestow Curse, then how does the commoner "out" the bard as a liar?A first level cleric can't cast Ressurection, and may be killed by a magical mishap if he triest to cast it from a scroll. Does his inability to cast it make him less of a priest? Does his death at the hands of divine magic too powerful for him to control make him a liar?If you're going to define things by what people can't do, then that 1st level cleric suddenly isn't a real priest.The abilities ascribed priest and holy persons were to protect, to inspire, and to heal, among others. Thus the cleric's spell list is littered with spells that do those things. After a while, clerics get to smite, too.So if the power to protect, inspire and heal are present, then would that person be treated more like a priest? Would it seem likely that they are blessed?If in the DnD magic-is-real-world they could cast:Cure Light WoundsRemove FearSummon Monster X (Celestial Beings)Calm EmotionsCure Moderate WoundsDelay PoisonHeroismWould they seem like a priest? Because every one of those spells is on the Bard spell list.I've been mentioning Diplomacy, Profession (Priest), Knowledge (Religion) and Knowledge (History) for a reason.And what proportion of your NPCs are classed with PC classes that every priest can cast spells?<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">"Bless you and yours, my child." Easily said. And said by an ordained bard makes it none the less a blessing.</li> </ul> <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Religious ceremonies are rituals more do to with Knowledge (Religion) than spellcasting.</li> </ul> <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Healing? There is a Heal skill.</li> </ul> <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">A priest can pray for a good harvest like Army padres can pray for clear skies. Was Patton's 3rd Army Chaplain any less a priest because he couldn't cast spells?</li> </ul>A bard priest would not be able to do this, no. But if commoners saved up enough coppers to afford a Raise Dead, I'm sure the bard would be able to take them to someone who could. Same for Atonement.But unless you populate your world with 90% PC classes level 9 or higher, then most priests arn't going to be able to cast Raise Dead either.All of these are true. And none of them necessitate particular classes, though you seem to think they do.The scary woman needs not be a witch (sorcerer w/ DMG spell list). The bearded guy need not be a sorcerer. The alchemist need not be a wizard. Saying so is like saying the alchemist must be a gnome; simply because it's likely doesn't mean it must be the case.I am catholic too, since you ask.Yep. That connection is the strength of his faith, is it not? And his responsibilities include supporting and strengthening the faith of the community; something better done with Diplomacy and Knowledge (Religion) than with Blade Barrier.This is also a game where the vast majority of individuals take NPC classes.Or are the blacksmiths and farmers and merchants in your game classed with PC classes?Yes, avatars can be running around. Yes, people can summon unholy Demons to walk the earth. And yes, some of the priesthood will be able to cast spells. They are the exceptional people, not the rule. At least they are in my game and incidently in the recommended DMG breakdown of NPC classes.I take religion in my campaign world very seriously. I'm just don't restrain my thinking to, "He's a priest, so there is no way he could be anything but a cleric." As a matter of fact, like real world religions, most priests can't cast spells. Most are experts with ranks in Knowledge (religion), Diplomacy, Knowledge (History), Sense Motive among other skills. Most priests busy themselves with spreading the word of their religion and advocating on behalf of their church. They do indeed have something that sets them apart from the lay community, and that is the intensity and the intelligence of their faith.It is the rare and blessed (or cursed) that can cast spells. Most of these people are indeed priests, and they rise quickly through the heirarchy, but they are far and away the minority.</blockquote>

Verification