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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Dannyalcatraz" data-source="post: 3280953" data-attributes="member: 19675">Which ones?While his healing is limited, he can cast classic divine spells like Bless, Orison, Purify Food/Drink, Remove Curse, Tongues, Atonement, Quest, and True Seeing (as well as the reversible versions of them of course).  Most of those are derived from analogs within RW religions and legends, "cast" by divine beings or their agents.Few of those spells, to addresss another poster, are available to arcane casters.And, as I've pointed out- this is not really a jerry-rigged PC- it is nearly identical to the 2Ed Shaman. 1) Patton's 3rd Army Chaplain was an ordained minister-IOW, a priest- not merely a soldier.  Here are the requirements for the US Army Chaplaincy program.(  <a href="http://www.goarmy.com/chaplain/requirements.jsp" target="_blank">http://www.goarmy.com/chaplain/requirements.jsp</a>  )  Other branches have similar requirements.2) Were Patton's 3rd Army traipsing through a FRPG, it is likely that some being would be answering (or at least listening to) that Chaplain's praryer.Merely saying "Bless you, my child" may only seem to be words in the RW, but in an FRPG, the commoner is expecting something a little more concrete.Re: Distinguishing between Arcane and Divine magic.Obviously, some people missed my point.Of course you can't distinguish between an arcane and divine spell of the same kind without special magics yourself.I said: IOW, you distinguish between the arcane and divine casters by what the casters cannot cast that they ought to be able to.For example, a divine caster of a certain level ought to be able to absolve you of wrongdoings against your faith that have actual game mechanical effects- actions that shift your alignment, cost you class powers, etc.- by casting Attonement.  No arcane caster will ever be able to do that.While not every priest will be able to cast Attonement (due to the structure of the game that links spells to class level), at any class level, you can find at least one spell that a priest can cast that an arcane caster cannot.  One could start with Purify Food and Drink and be done with it, or you could continue into spells like Consecrate, Regenerate, Remove Blindness/Deafness, etc. And there is a reason- everything you've described up to that point has a RW analog in the duties of lay ministers and seminarians.  (Plus, if you've ever been to Dallas/FW, I can point to at least 3 priests who give horrible sermons...) Even though he's not a Priest, a Deacon can give a sermon.  He can even perform certain sacraments...butonly in the absence of a Priest.Even though he's not a Priest or a Deacon, a Eucharistic Minister can distribute the Eucharist- handling a manifestation of God on Earth.My church's Music Minister has composed some awesome songs of praise.  He's even been involved with certain Papal masses on an international scale.  He is a great motivational speaker.  He'd clearly be a Bard in D&D, probably even considered one of the lay ministry, nobody would ever mistake him for being a Priest (especially since he just got married this Sunday).But only a priest can hear confession and similar higher duties of the clergy.  Why?  Because Holy Orders- that connection with the divine- is a neccessary prerequisite.I personally know several people with degrees in Divinity who are not priests- were you to call them such would bring a swift correction.  Despite their education, despite their training, despite their skills, they haven't taken that final step.And in an FRPG, that final step is codified into the game mechanics by taking levels in a class like Cleric or Druid, which perforce means the PC will cast spells. Yeah- I'll cop to that.One of my main problems with the Cleric class in general- going all the way back- is that Turn Undead is granted to faiths that really don't have any reason to have such abilities.  Worship a god of life?  Sure! Turn those undead.A god of Love?  Chaos?  Elemental Fire?  Weather?  What possible interest do deities of those portfolios have in affecting undead in such a manner?</blockquote>

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