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<blockquote data-quote="Dheran" data-source="post: 3529577" data-attributes="member: 49779">I think too many people are trying to extend the Shadowdancer/Assassin HiPS description past what's written to try to make a more &quot;comprehensive&quot; model of the mechanics.&nbsp; This, to me, is a big mistake.&nbsp; These extensions just create more contention (such as whether &quot;manipulated shadow&quot; is an illusion) and are counterproductive since the goal is to just answer a single question.Here's my take at answering.&nbsp; The Supernatural Hide in Plain Sight lets you Hide when you're near a shadow.&nbsp; Supernatural abilities are suppressed in an Antimagic Field but don't otherwise have any observable magical properties (unlike spell-like abilities).&nbsp; Check Table 8-1: Special Ability Types on page 290 of the DMG and you'll see that, except for their behavior in an Antimagic Field, Supernatural and Extraordinary abilities are treated identically.&nbsp; Supernatural HiPS does not, by the RAW, create illusions.&nbsp; There is no visible effect described in the rules for when a character starts hiding.&nbsp;You don't need Supernatural ability to be able to remain in hiding without cover/concealment.&nbsp; The Move between Cover use of Hide (in Complete Adventurer) lets anyone who's hidden move up a number of feet equaling their ranks in Hide away from cover or concealment and still stay hidden.&nbsp; Since True Seeing can't help spot those characters who are moving around out in the open using a simple Hide check, why should it be able to spot characters who are out in the open after a Hide check provided by HiPS?&nbsp; It shouldn't.The short answer: True Seeing doesn't help against hidden characters, Hide in Plain Sight or not.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Dheran, post: 3529577, member: 49779"] I think too many people are trying to extend the Shadowdancer/Assassin [I]HiPS[/I] description past what's written to try to make a more "comprehensive" model of the mechanics. This, to me, is a [B]big[/B] mistake. These extensions just create more contention (such as whether "manipulated shadow" is an illusion) and are counterproductive since the goal is to just answer a single question. Here's my take at answering. The Supernatural [I]Hide in Plain Sight[/I] lets you [I]Hide[/I] when you're near a shadow. Supernatural abilities are suppressed in an [I]Antimagic Field[/I] but don't otherwise have any observable magical properties (unlike spell-like abilities). Check [B]Table 8-1: Special Ability Types[/B] on page 290 of the [I]DMG[/I] and you'll see that, except for their behavior in an [I]Antimagic Field[/I], Supernatural and Extraordinary abilities are treated identically. Supernatural [I]HiPS[/I] does not, by the RAW, create illusions. There is [B]no[/B] visible effect described in the rules for when a character starts hiding. You don't need Supernatural ability to be able to remain in hiding without cover/concealment. The [I]Move between Cover[/I] use of [I]Hide[/I] (in [I]Complete Adventurer[/I]) lets anyone who's hidden move up a number of feet equaling their ranks in [I]Hide[/I] away from cover or concealment and [I]still[/I] stay hidden. Since [I]True Seeing[/I] can't help spot [I]those[/I] characters who are moving around out in the open using a simple [I]Hide[/I] check, why should it be able to spot characters who are out in the open after a [I]Hide[/I] check provided by [I]HiPS[/I]? It shouldn't. The short answer: [B][I]True Seeing[/I] doesn't help against hidden characters, [I]Hide in Plain Sight[/I] or not[/B]. [/QUOTE]

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