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Message: <blockquote data-quote="shadowoflameth" data-source="post: 9171188" data-attributes="member: 62336"><p>With a standard array you can potentially have two 16s at 1st. That isn't the problem. The problem is that two abilities that in principal work well (Flurry and Stunning) are tied to a d4. The d4 Martial Arts damage is a non-ability because all the weapons in the game except the blowgun already do better including all of the monk weapons. If you have two 16s You aren't getting a fighting style at 1st as a monk (Fighting initiate; Unarmed Style) and so you do a d4 with your main attack unless you sacrifice something to do better. You quickly run out of Ki Points because both Flurry of Blows and Stunning Strike cost them. Then consider Step of the Wind costing Ki for something that a Skirmisher needs (and the rogue gets unlimited use of) and you have a character that is a less effective unarmed fighter than the fighter with an unarmed build and a less effective skirmisher than the rogue with a skirmisher build. The mediocre chance to stun a foe is not enough effectiveness to compensate for this and you don't get Stunning strike until after spending the 1st 5 levels nothing as effective as your allies in any role no matter how you build. They need to fix the Ki point cost AND the damage with Unarmed Strike, (BTW a d6 doesn't do that because of the feat I mentioned). Give them a fighting style at 1st level, and make FINALLY Monk unarmed Strikes a Martial Melee Weapon, and a Monk Weapon. (Making them eligible to benefit from feats that need martial proficiency).  There is no good design reason for denying them this. Then separately, they need to fix ALL of the core sub-classes because they are ALL objectively bad. You may notice in the play test that they made an unarmed fighter subclass test with abilities that imitate several feats (and nothing else). My response on the play test survey was 'give this to the monk' over and over like I was talking to a child with badly done homework. Everyone is welcome to their opinion and play how you enjoy, but I can't enjoy the current Monk. I've tried and it's so bad that I responded to the 'fix' that if this will affect my decision on buying the revised rules at all. (end of rant. Thank you for indulging me).</p></blockquote><p></p>

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