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Message: <blockquote data-quote="billd91" data-source="post: 7508139" data-attributes="member: 3400">The skill challenges as presented in the 4e rules, at least DMG1, are highly problematic. If the DC to achieve isn't set very low, the need to have x successes before a lower number of y failures diminishes the chances of success well below a single die roll. Trying to have 10 successes before 3 failures is like running a race in which one runner has to go 100 meters while his opponent only has to run 30. Good luck winning that one. If they're anywhere near the same speed (or the check is anywhere near the 50/50 mark), the 30 meter runner has a very strong advantage and will win way more often than not.If you ask me, skill challenges are best used as ways to adjudicate various levels of success for the outcome of a series of PC actions or strategies - NOT to the point that failure means total destruction, as in the case of the exploding dungeon. The Star Wars Saga Edition supplement titled Galaxy of Intrigue had a pretty good example of one (as well as generally better treatment of skill challenges than 4e). In the example, PCs were trying to escape the spice mines of Kessel with some other prisoners. There are various ways they can make a check - consulting with other prisoners to plot the quickest way out, stealthily avoiding guards, disrupting communications from a small command post, and so on. A full victory with no failures meant they'd get to the landing platform and steal a freighter with all 10 fellow prisoners - each failure of a check reduced the ultimate success by whittling away fellow prisoners getting caught or lost to other factors. A failure of the whole challenge meant they had to fight their way through a tough encounter on the landing platform (success meant they got there before the opposition could). Failure of the whole challenge wouldn't be death and there were means of rating differing degrees of partial success should they manage to succeed overall but have some setbacks. It was a very good example of some place a skill challenge could give the GM some structure in deciding overall outcomes of the situation - particularly whether the PCs should have to fight on the platform or not to get away.A better mechanic to handle something like a race against time (or the exploding dungeon) might have been a chase sequence. The "countdown" moves one space every round and the PCs have to manage a limited number of dashes, some ability/skill checks to get over/through some obstacles or face a delay, and maybe balance some options for taking damage in order to advance 2 spaces instead of 1.</blockquote>

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