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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 5820083" data-attributes="member: 996">Part of what's been going on with scaling changes has to do with the roles monsters play relative to the PCs.In classic D&D (pre 3e), monsters had pretty arbitrary stat blocks not directly related to the way PCs were generated or leveled.  The role a monster played relative to the PCs was also arbitrary, monsters just were what they were, and the PCs dealt with them or not.In 3.x, monsters had more formulaic stat blocks that used many of the same systems as PCs for customization and leveling-up.  The role of any given monster was to modestly challenge a 4-player party of the same level.  Or, with a friend, a party 2 levels higher.  Or, with 3 friends, a party 4 levels higher.In 4e, monsters had formulaic stat blocks that did not use any of the same system as PCs for customization or leveling-up.  The stats of a monster depend on it's role.  A monster meant to be cannon fodder is a minion, one meant to challenge a party on it's own is Solo, in between are standards and elites.  Monsters also got roles in combat (Soldier, Artiller, lurker, etc).  The weird part is that a monster didn't always have the same stats.  An ogre might be a solo or elite at low level, standard at mid-heroic, and minion at Paragon, for instance.  It's quite easy for the DM to slide a monster up or down levels or across the Solo-minion spectrum.On one hand, that's a pendulum swing.  Monsters going from not like PCs, to much like PCs, back to not like PCs.Viewed another way, it's an evolution.  Monsters going from having one set of stats for all monsters of a type, to being customizeable and level-able in great detail, to being easily tailored to the role they play in the party's story, at the moment. What does that have to do with 'flatter math?'Well, in classic D&D, where a monster might need to be a big challenge for a low-level party, but cannon-fodder for a high level one, monsters had to be hittable and killable, over a wide range of levels. As monsters became customizeable, their numbers could slide with the party's, so the math could be steeper.Once monsters became defined primarily relative to the party, 'the math' could be steeper, and more broadly and evenly advancing, as well.5e 'flatter math' would thus be indicative of a return to the classic approach to monsters - as 'status quo' encounters, with the monster's stats being about the monster, not how the DM might want to use it, or how the party might go about defeating it, or what role it might play in the cooperative story the DM and players or weaving.</blockquote>

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