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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7635715" data-attributes="member: 996">There are no new ideas.It certainly /did/ it badly (if at all) in '93.&nbsp; Since 3.0, it hasn't been so bad, mechanically (OK, diplomancers were pretty horrid), in theory, if DM's'd use the mechanics, and players'd respect them when they didn't break their way...…/IF/.If not, well, machete, gasoline. Problem solved.Well, and out of the insistence that &quot;we should just RP it&quot; and &quot;you can't tell me how my character feelz!&quot;&nbsp;It is a problem with the play dynamics of the system, with those sorts of players …which are all too common. And, it also goes the other way, with high-mental-stat PCs, who's players took the stat only to fuel casting, and aren't up to, or don't even want to, portray the RP implications. Whether it's a problem with the system or the players is just pointing the finger.&nbsp; It's easier to fix the system than fix the players, humans getting really testy when you try to pop the case and work on their non-user-serviceable hardware (your extended warranty sucks, anyway, what're you so worried about?).That's rather the point.&nbsp; /In a game without mental stats/, it's nobody's fault if the characters turn out to be no more (or less) knowledgeable, prudent, or persuasive than their players.Yeah, except for the last one.&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />&nbsp; Though you could substitute some vomit-inducing fraternity hazing trick, to resolve CON saves, I suppose.It's a funny line, and I don't see why it's so easy to get players to cross the line that their characters are physically different, so physical tasks are resolved mechanically, but so hard for them to accept the mechanical resolution of interaction, exploration, &amp; knowledge tasks /when they think they might do better themselves/, or when they're unhappy with an implied result.&nbsp; I mean, the fighter fails to open a stuck door, they'll just curse their dice.It is emmersions to the nth degree, though.Oh, you can totally play a Bard in this variant:&nbsp; CHA-based arcane caster:&nbsp; uses POW.&nbsp; The end. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> (What?&nbsp; Lore?&nbsp; CHA skillz?&nbsp; Just pick other skills. You can still take tool proficiency: musical instruments (it'll just use DEX), for instance... )</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7635715, member: 996"] There are no new ideas. It certainly /did/ it badly (if at all) in '93. Since 3.0, it hasn't been so bad, mechanically (OK, diplomancers were pretty horrid), in theory, if DM's'd use the mechanics, and players'd respect them when they didn't break their way... …/IF/. If not, well, machete, gasoline. Problem solved. Well, and out of the insistence that "we should just RP it" and "you can't tell me how my character feelz!" It is a problem with the play dynamics of the system, with those sorts of players …which are all too common. And, it also goes the other way, with high-mental-stat PCs, who's players took the stat only to fuel casting, and aren't up to, or don't even want to, portray the RP implications. Whether it's a problem with the system or the players is just pointing the finger. It's easier to fix the system than fix the players, humans getting really testy when you try to pop the case and work on their non-user-serviceable hardware (your extended warranty sucks, anyway, what're you so worried about?). That's rather the point. /In a game without mental stats/, it's nobody's fault if the characters turn out to be no more (or less) knowledgeable, prudent, or persuasive than their players. Yeah, except for the last one. ;) Though you could substitute some vomit-inducing fraternity hazing trick, to resolve CON saves, I suppose. It's a funny line, and I don't see why it's so easy to get players to cross the line that their characters are physically different, so physical tasks are resolved mechanically, but so hard for them to accept the mechanical resolution of interaction, exploration, & knowledge tasks /when they think they might do better themselves/, or when they're unhappy with an implied result. I mean, the fighter fails to open a stuck door, they'll just curse their dice. It is emmersions to the nth degree, though. Oh, you can totally play a Bard in this variant: CHA-based arcane caster: uses POW. The end. ;) (What? Lore? CHA skillz? Just pick other skills. You can still take tool proficiency: musical instruments (it'll just use DEX), for instance... ) [/QUOTE]

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