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<blockquote data-quote="Libramarian" data-source="post: 6063859" data-attributes="member: 6688858">@<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=42582" target="_blank">pemerton</a> Where I'm coming from is I read a description of pulp adventure fiction that said it's as if the protagonist is meant to be as invisible as possible in order to be a &quot;window&quot; into the adventure for the readers -- and I immediately thought: that's what the PCs in my D&amp;D game are often like, and in fact when the game is the most fun. It's one of the reasons that I feel that Appendix N is important, not just for the trivia of knowing where certain D&amp;D elements come from, but because it describes the kind of fantasy fiction that D&amp;D* does well out of the box (you're less likely to be disappointed in the fiction D&amp;D produces if you have a Conan story in mind rather than say, Hamlet).* I mean classic D&amp;D; I know you feel that 4e has important innovations that make it more suitable for other fantasy modes. Happily for me I really like pulp and weird fiction (although it is clearly true that the best stuff is the stuff that pushes the envelope with respect to the protagonist being merely a window into the adventure -- I'm thinking of Conan and Elric, who not only have interesting, flawed personalities, but whose thoughts and desires are certainly important to the civilization vs. barbarism theme going on in both).Yeah, this makes sense to&nbsp; me...although thinking about it, it seem like a pretty tricky balance to have a theme that is really emotionally engaging (i.e. not arrived at in a simplistic or&nbsp; overly deliberate&nbsp; way) but also really clear, so everyone gets it and&nbsp; knows&nbsp; that everyone else gets it. Then again I can see how your example of the player sparing the bear would be narrativism.Out of curiosity, what sort of narrativistic coordination do you do with your players pre-game?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Libramarian, post: 6063859, member: 6688858"] @[I][B][U][URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=42582"]pemerton[/URL][/U][/B][/I] Where I'm coming from is I read a description of pulp adventure fiction that said it's as if the protagonist is meant to be as invisible as possible in order to be a "window" into the adventure for the readers -- and I immediately thought: that's what the PCs in my D&D game are often like, and in fact when the game is the most fun. It's one of the reasons that I feel that Appendix N is important, not just for the trivia of knowing where certain D&D elements come from, but because it describes the kind of fantasy fiction that D&D* does well out of the box (you're less likely to be disappointed in the fiction D&D produces if you have a Conan story in mind rather than say, [I]Hamlet[/I]). * I mean classic D&D; I know you feel that 4e has important innovations that make it more suitable for other fantasy modes. Happily for me I really like pulp and weird fiction (although it is clearly true that the best stuff is the stuff that pushes the envelope with respect to the protagonist being merely a window into the adventure -- I'm thinking of Conan and Elric, who not only have interesting, flawed personalities, but whose thoughts and desires are certainly important to the civilization vs. barbarism theme going on in both). Yeah, this makes sense to me...although thinking about it, it seem like a pretty tricky balance to have a theme that is really emotionally engaging (i.e. not arrived at in a simplistic or overly deliberate way) but also really clear, so everyone gets it and knows that everyone else gets it. Then again I can see how your example of the player sparing the bear would be narrativism. Out of curiosity, what sort of narrativistic coordination do you do with your players pre-game? [/QUOTE]

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