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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 6067667" data-attributes="member: 87792">I've shown why they aren't.  Your "lockdown" actively encourages people to challenge it by removing the punishment.  This is a world away from a 4e Defender.  As for self inflicted blindness, this appears to be an example of the pot calling the kettle black.The original claim was a defender.  There's a difference.  A defender gets attacked not just through lockdown but because attacking the fighter is the monster's least bad option.  You can lockdown with a spiked chain fighter - this I will grant.  (The 4e version would be the Polearm Momentum batter - and again it involves a specific chain of feats).  And it's better at it than one that gives up all its damage from opportunity attacks.  This does not make it a defender - there's no lose/lose choices involved.  Especially not with the lockdown feat you chose that actively encourages monsters to try to walk away by removing the punishment.  Apparently you don't understand what a defender is or does.Given you've been shown to be incorrect about a defender, incorrect about the PF fighter being able to do anything a 4e fighter can by me, and incredibly incorrect about the PF fighter being able to do anything a 4e fighter can by @Pmerton invoking Come and Get It, I'm wondering what exactly you've got left on the table that you think is correct.Abilities you need to match to just reach the 4e fighter baseline:Combat Challenge In combat, it’s dangerous to ignore a fighter. Every time you attack  an enemy, whether the attack hits or misses, you can choose to mark that target. <ul style="margin-left: 20px"> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The mark lasts until the end of your next turn.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">While a target is marked, it takes a –2 penalty to attack rolls for any attack that doesn’t include you as a target.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">A creature can be subject to only one mark at a time. A new mark supersedes a mark that was already in place.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">In addition, whenever a marked enemy that is adjacent to you shifts or makes an attack that does not include you, you can make a melee basic attack against that enemy as an immediate interrupt</li> </ul>andCombat Superiority <ul style="margin-left: 20px"> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">You gain a bonus to opportunity attacks equal to your Wisdom modifier.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">An enemy struck by your opportunity attack stops moving, if a move provoked the attack. If it still has actions remaining, it can use them to resume moving.</li> </ul> Note that<ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">A 4e character gets an unlimited number of opportunity attacks - 1/turn.  (Yes, this means there are a very few cases where a Pathfinder fighter will be able to make two attacks of opportunity on the same enemy)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Combat Challenge is not an opportunity attack.  It's an immediate action.  So the fighter can in rare cases make an OA and a Combat Challenge attack on the same enemy in the same turn.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">A shift is the same type of movement as a 5ft step.  So where your fighter gets a follow up step mine gets a free swing - and then to make a 5ft step on his turn (which yours has given up).</li> </ol>And when you're done with that, show me how a Pathfinder fighter can try for Come and Get It, sucking all enemies to around the fighter - or Rain of Steel, a daily power that for 1 fight/day damages every enemy who starts next to the fighter.</blockquote>

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