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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hriston" data-source="post: 9683342" data-attributes="member: 6787503">Thanks for pointing this out. It kind of bugged me too.I had thought somewhat about Ulmo in exactly the respect you mention until I ran across this write-up on tolkiengateway.net:Even while the Valar were secluded in Valinor or when the Children were under the wrath of his brethren, Ulmo, alone of the Valar, was the one who never forsook them. However, it was not done as rebellion towards other Valar, but because it was a role to which he was "appointed ere the making of the World".It's hard for me to reconcile this portrayal of Ulmo's actions with the idea that he was being sneaky or underhanded by remaining in contact with Middle-earth or that he had any desire to subvert the will of Eru. Rather, his actions were bourne out of his deep care for the Children of Ilúvatar and for Arda in general which is in complete alignment with the Valar's mission in coming into the World.Aulë is another Vala I might consider for Trickery because he crafted the dwarves in secrecy, going behind the backs of the other Valar, so to speak. Giving him Trickery (instead of Light which I consider as having the weakest association with him of the three domains I assigned him) would make him remarkably similar to Melkor, which has textual support, and portrays him as a Promethean culture hero of the dwarves, basically stealing the spark of life to ensure their existence, making it an apt choice for a dwarven cleric.And, to be clear, I would personally be fine with a player choosing pretty much any domain in combination with any deity. I would have no problem whatsoever with someone playing a Trickery cleric and choosing Ulmo or Aulë as their patron. There are some combinations that might feel like a stretch, but what I'm going for with this list are suggestions to players in a player facing document. So a variety of domain choices is desirable, but there's also a need to differentiate between deities to avoid sameness.With that being said, I think putting Trickery on Aulë's list along with Forge and Knowledge would make him appear like a limited version of Melkor, and I also don't think it's quite right thematically for about the same reason as for Ulmo. First, Aulë is motivated to fashion the dwarves out of love for the Children of Ilúvatar and his own impatience for their arrival which prompts him to bring about similar creatures by his own hand. Then, when Aulë's secret is "discovered" by Eru (who sees all), he repents and relinquishes his incomplete work to the will of the Creator, and only then are the dwarves given sentience. So rather than a product of trickery, the dwarves are a product of faithfulness and extreme piety.However, there is a Vala who I think would be a good fit for Trickery, and that's Vairë the Weaver, the spouse of Mandos. There isn't much about her except that she weaves tapestries that depict every event from the beginning of Time, which is why I chose Knowledge for her. This left her as the only entry in the list with just one domain. She has a clear connection to the spinning Fates, however, and I don't think it's too far from there to a deity like Fortuna, the embodiment of the whims of fate, both good and bad. So while there isn't much, if any, textual support for it -- I don't think there are any stories of Vairë doing anything tricky -- I think I'll edit the OP to add Trickery to her portfolio.</blockquote>

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