Dominate person question?

[djprawn]

Hi everyone i wondered whether you could give your opinion on this situation.
The party have been hunted down by an ex PC who grew to hate the PC's and then left the group.

During his time away a succubus demon has corrupted his mind by giving him demonic powers in exchange for killing the PC's; who now pose a threat to the demons greater schemes (this deal in effect also claims the ex PC's soul to the abyss).

The ex PC is now hell bent on eliminating the PC's but during the confrontation a member of the party successfully casts dominate person.

What happens now!?

according to the spell description ... ''Subjects resist this control, and any subject forced to take actions against its nature receives a new saving throw with a +2 bonus. Obviously self-destructive orders are not carried out. ''

For the ex PC even to stop fighting is against his nature so every second would he need to take a new saving throw?! Not killing the PC's would be a self destructive order due to the fact the demon has threatened him to do so.

What control , if any do you think the PC's have over him?

Thanks for reading.

 

[Cor Azer]

I can't say whether not attacking is against his nature or not, but it wouldn't be self-destructive - that's typically reserved for stuff like seppeku or jumping in lava. There's a break in causation between ceasing an attack and the succubus coming for him that makes it not self-destructive.

 

[djprawn]

So do you think that they can just use the ex Pc how they desire? They are likely to try to use him to fight against other demons, what do you think about that?

 

[Sunseeker]

The subject only gets a save when a specific action is chosen. If they tell him to sit down and stay still, he gets a save...if he fails, he sits down and stays still. He stays this way until the caster of Dominate Person tells him to do something again(including "stay seated") on their turn, or on the ex-PCs turn.

Because having him make a saving throw every second would essentially be "roll until you win", he should only get them on his turn and when a specific order is FIRST given.

If they told him to disarm, he'd get a save, if he fails, he disarms. If they tell him to lie prone on a table while they tie him down, and he fails, he lies prone on a table while they tie him down.

I don't think "don't kill us" is quite the same as "stop killing us forever", the spell has a limited duration, and once it's over the ex-PC can resume killing the party. The demon's command is more along the lines of "big picture" kill the party, and right at this moment it's "small picture" kill the party. If he doesn't succeed now because they disarm him, tie him down, and then run away, he'll eventually get free and then go hunt down the party again.

Dominate Person is a magical compulsion, as soon as the spell wears off, he's back to party killing. They can't use the spell to make him never hunt them down again, which is what would violate the Demon's command to kill the party.

If I assume correctly that you're using "Dominate Person" ala 3.5, the duration is 1 day per caster level, minimum caster level Bard 4, Sorc/Wiz 5. So they've got him dominated for at least 5 days. It is a "move action" to give a new command, AND you must spend one round per day(which is what, 60 seconds?) to maintain it. Given that the character's "nature" is opposed to that of the party, I'd argue that all commands would give him a new saving throw, but only on his turn or when a new command is first given. Given that a Turn is approx 6 seconds, he'd probably get about 1 save per minute, giving him 1440 saves per day that he remains dominated, which unless his Will simply cannot beat the spell DC(which should be about 15), he should be able to beat. Remember the spell also has a limited range for being cast, once cast it's range is unlimited on the same plane. So assuming he fails a save against being told to go kill his demonic patron, the patron only need lock him up for 5ish days until the spell wears off, at which point the party would be too far away to re-cast it.

If he cant beat the save EVER, even after rolling over a thousand saves, I'd suggest having the demon show up and intervene.

 

[djprawn]

Thanks so much shidaku for taking the time to repsond you have really helped.

Yes were playing 3.5 / pathfinder and his will save can beat the DC so i will just re roll with each new command and take it as it comes.

Thanks again!

 

[howandwhy99]

For the ex PC even to stop fighting is against his nature so every second would he need to take a new saving throw?! Not killing the PC's would be a self destructive order due to the fact the demon has threatened him to do so.

What control, if any do you think the PC's have over him?

shidaku covered it. The character is a thrall, an automaton controlled by the caster via language. They do not make a save every round, but follow orders as given. Saves are made when orders go against the Alignment or central goals of the character. I use that second definition instead of the one in the books as suicidal characters wouldn't make a save against suicidal orders.

I think it's important to remember that taking a thrall is an evil act in most campaign worlds. If a PC were taken under control, it becomes an NPC to whomever is running the controlling character. If I am DMing and it's my NPC monster in control, I'd play out the results during prep and, if the character became a PC again, tell the player whatever remembered experiences the character had during the time they had no control.

 

[Elf Witch]

I don't know if I consider the spell evil it does not have an evil descriptor. It really depends on you use it. Dominating an evil wizard to stop him fireballing a town is not an evil act.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Succubus ... dominate person ... dude, I just got it! How clueless am I?