Double Dipping AC bonuses

[Coredump]

(Okay, the example may not be 100% accurate, but it will still illustrate my question.)

Swashbuckler gives an AC bonus for high Int. (If not, pretend it does) So that you get +1AC per level, up to your Int bonus.

Invisible Blade gives the same.

Assuming I have 4 levels in SB and in IB, and an Int of 16. Do I get a +3 modifier to my AC, or a +6 modifier?

Thanks

 

[Lord Pendragon]

It depends on the wording of the abilities in question. If each ability "grants a bonus equal to the character's Int bonus to AC"...then they stack. The abilities are granting an unnamed bonus. If each ability "allows the PC to add his Int modifier to his AC" then they don't stack. Once you get the first ability, you've already added your Int mod to AC. The second allowance is redundant.

 

[argo]

Or to put it another way: like nammed bonuses never stack. If the classes give you an "Int bonus" to AC they dont' stack. If the bonuses have different names (or are unnamed bonuses) they do stack.

 

[Liquidsabre]

The Swashbuckler only receives a Dodge Bonus to AC vs one opponent, not an Int Bonus. A Duelist OTOH receives a Int Bonus to defense. The Invisible Blade is also an Int Bonus. As Argo pointed out like bonuses don't stack and both entries refer to an Int Bonus, so it doesn't look like they stack at all. The Dodge Bonus from the duelist however stacks with either the Duelist's or IB's Int Bonus.

 

[Darklone]

Well, since the IB bonus is limited by class levels (same for duelist IIRC), I'd allow it to stack.

 

[Scion]

At the very least let the levels stack for the abilities. Sortof like two classes with uncanny dodge.

5 levels of one and 5 levels of the other would allow for up to +10 bonus from int.

Even then though, letting them stack probably wouldnt be horribly unbalancing (maybe it would, but at first glance it would take a lot of levels and a huge stat modifier to really be very impressive).

 

[Lord Pendragon]

both entries refer to an Int Bonus

Referring to an Int bonus isn't enough to prevent them from stacking. Divine Grace refers to a Cha bonus, but you do not actually add your Cha to your saving throws. You add an unnamed bonus equal to your Cha bonus.

How are the AC bonuses worded? Do they grant Int bonus to AC, or do they grant a bonus equal to a PC's Int bonus, to AC? If it's the second, they stack, regardless of the fact that they both refer to the Int bonus.

 

[Liquidsabre]

Here are the direct quotes:

"...a duelist adds 1 point of Inteliigence bonus (if any) per duelist class level to her Dexterity bonus to modify Armor Class while wielding a melee weapon."

"...he adds 1 point of Intelligence bonus (if any) per invisible blade class level to his Armor Class in addition to any other modifiers..."

As I said, they are both Int bonuses and like bonuses do not stack.

Unfortunately the Duelist entry is not as clearly worded as the IB entry, stating that the Int bonus adds to the Dexterity bonus to modifying AC. Thanks to this wording I can easily see arguments that the Int bonus adds to the Dex bonus (making it a total Dex bonus?) and not directly to AC, thus allowing the two classes with Int-based bonuses to stack. I think it's a bit convoluted to reach that conclusion, but it certainly is possible to argue it.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I think it's a bit convoluted to reach that conclusion, but it certainly is possible to argue it.

That's exactly how I've always argued it

The Duellist's acts almost like an Enhancement bonus on a suit of armor... it doesn't increase the AC, but it increases the armor's Armor bonus, which increases the AC.

The Duellist's Int doesn't increase his AC; it increases his Dex bonus, which increases the AC. Another ability that adds an Int bonus to Dex bonus wouldn't stack, but an ability that adds Int bonus directly to AC stacks just fine.

-Hyp.

 

[Liquidsabre]

That's exactly how I've always argued it

and you'd be right too! As the text reads that is exactly how the Int bonus should be appllied; directly to the Dex mod which then adds to AC.

As you aptly put it Hyper, the Int bonus acts similar to an enhancement bonus to the Duelist's Dex mod. It just appears strange to most (myself included!) because we don't see this application anywhere else I can think of in the current ruleset.