Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Double sword, not as good as everyone thinks
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="MyISPHatesENWorld" data-source="post: 4581877" data-attributes="member: 65684"><p>No, the rules are clear. They just don't say what some people want them to. A ruling is based on what the rules say, not what you want them to say. You're twisting bits and pieces of the rules into a different rule that gives you the answer you want. That isn't a ruling, it is a house rule.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Your second interpretation isn't an interpretation. it is something you fabricated. You created a split where none exists, in either the description of the double sword in the text or in the table. WOTC_Logan has already made two posts, one in which he explained that the orginal writeup had two seperate lines and one in which he said he couldn't speak to the reasonthat it was changed, but that it was a moot point with regard to the "final double sword" which he only used as an example. It changed, and the description clearly describes it as two identical longsword blades, not a longsword blade an a rapier blade. However you dress it up, your "interpretation" isn't a ruling or interpretation, it is a house rule.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is wholly irrelevant when posting about what a rule is. A rule says what it says, regardless of whether you like it. Again, if you're twisting a rule to make it say something other than what it actually says, you've moved past making a ruling and into making a house rule.</p><p></p><p>As an aside, I don't like double weapons at all, any of them, period. I do like options though, I just like them to be meaningful and different. Which means that some options will be better in some combinations than others. A bastard sword isn't as good for a tempest fighter as a double sword. That doesn't mean the double sword (or double weapon property) is overpowered. Just like it didn't mean that the bastard sword (or the versatile property) was overpowered because it is a better choice for most swordmages than a double sword. There are options which make the double sword nice for the swordmage and options where weapons other than the double sword or whatever are nice for the tempest. Those options aren't always as simplistic as using a different weapon and getting the same level of results. Sometimes you need to mix feats, races, magic items, paragon paths and/or multiclassing to get the benefit of a switch. I prefer complex options to simple options. And, if you have good and viable combinations, and make the good combinations only viable by making a component worse, combinations using that component that were previously viable become non-viable. You reduce the number of viable options, and the number of options overall. So trying to give yourself some false moral high ground by implying that you have desire for a superior game with more options is disingenuous at best.</p><p></p><p>On churn: Posting "I don't like this rule and I think it should be like this." is one thing. It is honest, and generates debate. Posting "This rule I don't like actually says this." when it clearly doesn't, and twisting bits of text selectively to make a point generates confusion and churn. Most particularly, the irrational calls for aditional clarification when none is needed. There are things that need attention more than multiple FAQ entries and rules updates to confirm that they mean what they say. What's the update for Double Weapons going to say? "Wielding a double weapon is like wielding a weapon in each hand, really, we mean it, for sure."</p><p></p><p>On the FAQ: Does someone have some "official" statement making the FAQ unofficial or that it is just a customer service answer. The only WotC information I've seen on the process is a customer service response to a question which said there wasn't an official answer, and the CS rep said he would send the question back to the developers of the game and that "hopefully" an FAQ or update would be forthcoming. I've never seen anything that said FAQ updates were made without the input of the developers,</p><p></p><p>But, really the 'FAQ isn't official' line is no different than what will happen if an update is released. The same people complaining that the existing rules are unclear because they clearly state something other than what they want them to will continue to claim that the updated rules are unclear if they don't like the updated rules.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="MyISPHatesENWorld, post: 4581877, member: 65684"] No, the rules are clear. They just don't say what some people want them to. A ruling is based on what the rules say, not what you want them to say. You're twisting bits and pieces of the rules into a different rule that gives you the answer you want. That isn't a ruling, it is a house rule. Your second interpretation isn't an interpretation. it is something you fabricated. You created a split where none exists, in either the description of the double sword in the text or in the table. WOTC_Logan has already made two posts, one in which he explained that the orginal writeup had two seperate lines and one in which he said he couldn't speak to the reasonthat it was changed, but that it was a moot point with regard to the "final double sword" which he only used as an example. It changed, and the description clearly describes it as two identical longsword blades, not a longsword blade an a rapier blade. However you dress it up, your "interpretation" isn't a ruling or interpretation, it is a house rule. This is wholly irrelevant when posting about what a rule is. A rule says what it says, regardless of whether you like it. Again, if you're twisting a rule to make it say something other than what it actually says, you've moved past making a ruling and into making a house rule. As an aside, I don't like double weapons at all, any of them, period. I do like options though, I just like them to be meaningful and different. Which means that some options will be better in some combinations than others. A bastard sword isn't as good for a tempest fighter as a double sword. That doesn't mean the double sword (or double weapon property) is overpowered. Just like it didn't mean that the bastard sword (or the versatile property) was overpowered because it is a better choice for most swordmages than a double sword. There are options which make the double sword nice for the swordmage and options where weapons other than the double sword or whatever are nice for the tempest. Those options aren't always as simplistic as using a different weapon and getting the same level of results. Sometimes you need to mix feats, races, magic items, paragon paths and/or multiclassing to get the benefit of a switch. I prefer complex options to simple options. And, if you have good and viable combinations, and make the good combinations only viable by making a component worse, combinations using that component that were previously viable become non-viable. You reduce the number of viable options, and the number of options overall. So trying to give yourself some false moral high ground by implying that you have desire for a superior game with more options is disingenuous at best. On churn: Posting "I don't like this rule and I think it should be like this." is one thing. It is honest, and generates debate. Posting "This rule I don't like actually says this." when it clearly doesn't, and twisting bits of text selectively to make a point generates confusion and churn. Most particularly, the irrational calls for aditional clarification when none is needed. There are things that need attention more than multiple FAQ entries and rules updates to confirm that they mean what they say. What's the update for Double Weapons going to say? "Wielding a double weapon is like wielding a weapon in each hand, really, we mean it, for sure." On the FAQ: Does someone have some "official" statement making the FAQ unofficial or that it is just a customer service answer. The only WotC information I've seen on the process is a customer service response to a question which said there wasn't an official answer, and the CS rep said he would send the question back to the developers of the game and that "hopefully" an FAQ or update would be forthcoming. I've never seen anything that said FAQ updates were made without the input of the developers, But, really the 'FAQ isn't official' line is no different than what will happen if an update is released. The same people complaining that the existing rules are unclear because they clearly state something other than what they want them to will continue to claim that the updated rules are unclear if they don't like the updated rules. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Double sword, not as good as everyone thinks
Top