Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="MadKing" data-source="post: 5980175" data-attributes="member: 6696066">Hello guys,I have been a passive member of the forum on the past few weeks, and glad to make my 1st post <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> although is a (probably easy) question!I'm the DM of a group of five 7th level PCs. On our last session, the Rogue/Assassin went below 0 hp and fell unconscious. After this, the Boneshard skeleton attacking him was dropped to 0 hit points, which triggered the 'Boneshard burst' aaaand the debate started. Let me introduce you the participants:Boneshard burstClose burst 3; +8 vs Reflex; 2d6 + 3 necrotic damage.The Rogue's defense for this matter24 Reflex.I rolled a 10 with the dice, +8 of the skill, it was a 18 against Reflex.At 1st glance, I made the mistake of trying to apply common sense (such an underestimated skill) and think that an unconscious character cannot make (at least full) use of his Reflex defense. So I tried to make the hit effective, thinking that a total 18 is not a bad result for trying to hit someone unconscious on the floor. Of course, the dying PC didn't agreed with me and told me that not all his defenses were natural, he had magical items boosting his reflexes (I found some sense on this, though I wasn't totally convinced).After arguing for a (not so) few minutes, we decided just to attach to the rules and used the 'unconscious' state from the PH. It says that an 'Unconscious' PC is also 'Helpless' and that is a -5 to all defenses. So:Rogue's reflex = 24 (his total) - 5 (from helpless) = 19Boneshard Burst = Rolled 18He wasn't affected by the attack. yay! He did not died in that turn. (Sadly for him, the skeleton was a vicious killer who made a coup de grace on his turn, seconds after the 'Boneshard burst' fail, he was using a scimitar, and we all know how scimitar score critical hits).My questions are: 1) Is there some other conditions I'm missing about burst attacks targeting the unconscious?2) Besides the answer to the previous question, is there some more specific rule when targeting the Reflex defense on unconscious objectives?There are 2 things that I can't get out of my head:- I understand that if an arrow seeks for an unconscious target CA, it might hit him, but if the roll is low it might not pierce the metal. Here, I see how CA from armor is effective. But Reflexes? Check my 2nd thought.- Let's suppose that Flash (Marvel's Speedy Gonzalez) exists on the D&D 4e universe. He might have like 500 reflex (just kidding, but he might have a lot). Suddenly Flash drops unconscious being so unlucky that someone decides to toss a grenade right next to him. The grenade is '+10 vs Reflex' (for some unknown reason). Let's see how this happen:Flash defenseReflex = 500 (his normal Reflex) - 5 (from helpless) = 495Grenade attack10 (dice roll) + 10 (grenade modifier) = 20too bad I cannot hurt flash even though he is unconscious lying on the floor <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f641.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":(" title="Frown    :("  data-smilie="3"data-shortname=":(" />. That damned light-speed lucky bastard.I hope you guys help me throw some light on this <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />. Thanks in advance!</blockquote>

Verification