Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 840896" data-attributes="member: 3146">If that's what they were thinking then they should rethink it. Sleep and Charm are also both first level. A PC wizard should get something for casting a 3rd level spell instead of a first level. (And they still do if and only if they're smart enough to leave the weakened version of Hold Person on the cutting room floor). The weakened version of Hold Person may still be worthwhile as a second level spell. (Although I wouldn't take it for my cleric when Sound Burst and Calm Emotions are options). As a third level spell, however, it's competing with the likes of blur and secret page for combat utility.As for Hold Monster... I'm sure it's effective. However, if the new version is supposed to compete with Wall of Force, Feeblemind, Dominate Person, Summon Monster V, etc, someone's not thinking clearly. A save every round hold monster is comparable to Phantasmal Killer not Cone of Cold.Disintegrate is also a fort save which is much harder for wizard and rogue types to make. If they were concerned about instakills and the "go get a bag of chips syndrome" they should have changed a large number of spells--Sleep, Phantasmal Killer, Slay Living, Disintegrate, Circle of Death, Finger of Death, Destruction, etc. Let's face it, changing the hold spells to a save every round does a lot for making them less useful but does very little for eliminating the prevalence of "save or die" spells in mid-high level D&D. Given that holds are the nicest of the supposedly instakill effects (effect one target, don't actually kill you on a failed save--just make you coup de graceable--, and are negated by a second level cleric spell (remove paralysis)) claiming to nerf hold person to stop the "bag of chips" syndrome is like walking into the bar carrying a dead kitten and saying "Well, you know the rabid dire lion that's loose on the street, I've done something about it."No. Most of the ones I'm thinking of remove the character from the game either permanently or until a Ressurection or True Resurrection can be cast.Don't forget Remove Paralysis. As far as I can tell that's four ways which is more ways than there are to stop Phantasmal Killer (make the save, be a paladin, have Mind Blank active), Sleep (make the save, be 5HD or more, or be an elf), Slay Living (Make the save and have enough hit points to survive the damage or have Death Ward up), Disintegrate (Have the touch attack miss or make the save), or any of the real instakill spells.As opposed to all of the other spells that make a character dead instead of a candidate for being dead. I don't see why it's more fun to be a easy to kill than to be killed.Right. Are they going to change the mummy's despair, the Ether Hulk's Daze, the Umber Hulk's Confusion, the Frost Worm's fascination ability, and the Bodak's death gaze then?Or is it only PC spellcasters who will have their abilities nerfed to the point of uselessness?</blockquote>

Verification