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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Wik" data-source="post: 5209843" data-attributes="member: 40177">Yyup.  And I hated the references to the planes there, too.  I think they were added for the same reason the setting had the PHB races - the powers that be wanted a connection to other systems.  You'll note that the planes did get phased out later on, giving athas its own cosmology of sorts.  I don't like the 99.9% destroyed feywild.  If it's so destroyed, why include it at all?  Because you need to have a justification for some of the 4eisms.  But why include those at all?  Because (and this is Rich's own words) you want to satisfy those who "always play Eladrin".  Fair enough.  But no, I don't like.  But easy to fix - it won't be in my game.And I'm sorry if I came across as being rude.  Trust me, I'm very happy you guys are putting this out - and my players will tell you that I've been singing your praises.  95% of what you are releasing is amazing, from what I've seen - but there are things I don't like.  And yes, I'd much rather have a fan working on the system than a guy who does it as his "job".  This being the internet, and us being humans, we tend to pick on the negative, rather than focus on the positives.  And I apologize for that.Yup.  It's kind of a catch 22.  And no matter what you do, people will hate on it.  My question here is this:  why did 4e Dark Sun need a feywild?  Or planes?  Or tieflings?  What I was trying to say earlier (and failed at) is this perspective:1)  Designer is a fan of the setting.  Presumably, he is a fan of the setting for its strengths.  If said designer is playing dark sun instead of planescape, we can assume he's not playing it for the planar quirks, or whatever else.  2)  Designer gets assigned to work on the new 4e Dark Sun setting.  3)  Designer uses all his public service announcements about the changes being made to the setting, using a "we need to fix this" or "how to implement 4e into this design" and then wonders why some fans fly into nerd rage.  By the way, I'm not saying I wouldn't make changes were I in your shoes.  They'd just be different changes, that would be just as likely to alienate and anger some old school fans out there.  (I'd tweak magic items, which I think you guys did too.  I'd hint at city-states beyond the Tyr Region.  I'd change magic around.  I'd downplay the psionics.  I'd make Templars powered by the Divine Power source.  I'd keep random wild talents.  And so on).  And I really, REALLY hope you succeed.  I'm pretty sure you guys will, though those Athas Desert Tiles make me nervous, what with all the water.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />  Go nuts with the feywild, Eladrin, Tieflings, and all that stuff.  I'll throw them right back out.  But when you do introduce stuff I like (Dragonborn, for example, seem really cool) I'll keep them and sing your praises.  I'm not expecting a verbatim copy of 2e - I'd actually complain if that happened, too!  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />What I am expecting is to have the new additions to be well thought out, valid, and to be something that reinforces the nature of athas.  A magical desert that is just "the normal desert trumped to 11" does not do it to me.  Because the desert already should be at 11.Essentially, saying "the feywild is like a worse place than the current land" is bad beans - because Athas should be hell to begin with.  And to make it a better place goes against that, too - because then everyone would want to go there, danger or no.  So what's the point of it being there?</blockquote>

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