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Dragon 338: Returning to Athas, part1
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<blockquote data-quote="Aegeri" data-source="post: 5212221" data-attributes="member: 78116"><p>Many of these complaints read as if the individuals in question didn't read what Rich actually wrote and are subsequently making a mountain out of a molehill. </p><p></p><p>For example:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is absurd and clearly indicates you haven't even read what the Feywild in Dark Sun actually entails, as <a href="http://community.wizards.com/wotc_richbaker/blog/2010/06/10/eladrin_of_athas,_future_of_the_kriegsmarine" target="_blank">Rich Baker on his blog puts it</a>:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I mean how is any of that similar to what you wrote?</p><p></p><p>1) The Feywild - like Athas - is dying. It's not a safe haven. This inherently destroys any point you've actually made with this, but we'll continue.</p><p></p><p>2) It is not continuous at all. There may be 'threads' of it behind where you can teleport for extremely short distances, but not enough for any significant travel on the plane.</p><p></p><p>3) It's just as evil as the Athasian desert and probably worse - given it's actually a more extreme version of the desert. Do you honestly think a PC escaping for a more <em>deadly</em> desert is at all equivalent to what you're saying?</p><p></p><p>4) We don't even know if Athasian Eladrin can still teleport, the Dark Sun book could well give them another racial power. This wouldn't be unheard of.</p><p></p><p>Let's also examine that by canon and what Rich Baker wrote:</p><p></p><p>Indicates that as the DM, you can choose that day to be immediately and all that Feywild stuff no longer exists and is now stuck properly on Athas. As was indicated by the whole part where the feywild is dying and only isolated pockets are left part.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Now you're perfectly entitled to dislike the feywild and similar in Athas. You can remove Eladrin if you like as well. It would be nice though if you could get the basic facts about how it works in Athas right when you're complaining about it. I think that's why you are seeing so many people breaking their "criticism detectors", it's because what you're criticizing isn't valid to begin with - not that you're criticizing it. You've basically set up something that isn't what Rich Baker wrote the Feywild in Athas is to begin with. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You didn't say you "paraphrased" his quote, you did this:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And believe it or not "" are in fact quote tags - they aren't fancy BB quote tags but they have the exact same purpose. They are used when you are indicating a direct quote from another person - in this case Rich Baker. The core difference between what you <em>claimed</em> Rich Baker said and what he actually wrote are worlds apart if you even for a moment analyze what you claimed he wrote and what he <em>did in fact write</em>.</p><p></p><p>This is pure pedantry on my part, but when you're going to butcher what someone else wrote so badly while trying to protest you're being misquoted, the irony is far too much for me not to make a comment.</p><p></p><p>The actual point here is that they thought they had an element they could choose to exclude or include (one of the core races). They had a logical and well supported way of inserting it into the setting. They did so. In the case of something else like paladins and divine classes before you bring it up, they made a choice not to put in divine classes because they didn't see the need to in a world where the gods were dead. People bought up elemental classes, but the reason elemental clerics were in 2E has simple logic, as demonstated by <a href="http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3196218&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=39#post378178196" target="_blank">Rodney Thompson</a>:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So that is why elemental priest went from being a cleric to a primal power source related theme. There wasn't a justification that could be used or a way of logically integrating divine classes into the setting. At the same time returning to the Eladrin/Feywild part, they had a logical justification and a way of putting in Eladrin into Dark Sun. So they did so.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Aegeri, post: 5212221, member: 78116"] Many of these complaints read as if the individuals in question didn't read what Rich actually wrote and are subsequently making a mountain out of a molehill. For example: This is absurd and clearly indicates you haven't even read what the Feywild in Dark Sun actually entails, as [URL="http://community.wizards.com/wotc_richbaker/blog/2010/06/10/eladrin_of_athas,_future_of_the_kriegsmarine"]Rich Baker on his blog puts it[/URL]: I mean how is any of that similar to what you wrote? 1) The Feywild - like Athas - is dying. It's not a safe haven. This inherently destroys any point you've actually made with this, but we'll continue. 2) It is not continuous at all. There may be 'threads' of it behind where you can teleport for extremely short distances, but not enough for any significant travel on the plane. 3) It's just as evil as the Athasian desert and probably worse - given it's actually a more extreme version of the desert. Do you honestly think a PC escaping for a more [I]deadly[/I] desert is at all equivalent to what you're saying? 4) We don't even know if Athasian Eladrin can still teleport, the Dark Sun book could well give them another racial power. This wouldn't be unheard of. Let's also examine that by canon and what Rich Baker wrote: Indicates that as the DM, you can choose that day to be immediately and all that Feywild stuff no longer exists and is now stuck properly on Athas. As was indicated by the whole part where the feywild is dying and only isolated pockets are left part. Now you're perfectly entitled to dislike the feywild and similar in Athas. You can remove Eladrin if you like as well. It would be nice though if you could get the basic facts about how it works in Athas right when you're complaining about it. I think that's why you are seeing so many people breaking their "criticism detectors", it's because what you're criticizing isn't valid to begin with - not that you're criticizing it. You've basically set up something that isn't what Rich Baker wrote the Feywild in Athas is to begin with. You didn't say you "paraphrased" his quote, you did this: And believe it or not "" are in fact quote tags - they aren't fancy BB quote tags but they have the exact same purpose. They are used when you are indicating a direct quote from another person - in this case Rich Baker. The core difference between what you [I]claimed[/I] Rich Baker said and what he actually wrote are worlds apart if you even for a moment analyze what you claimed he wrote and what he [I]did in fact write[/I]. This is pure pedantry on my part, but when you're going to butcher what someone else wrote so badly while trying to protest you're being misquoted, the irony is far too much for me not to make a comment. The actual point here is that they thought they had an element they could choose to exclude or include (one of the core races). They had a logical and well supported way of inserting it into the setting. They did so. In the case of something else like paladins and divine classes before you bring it up, they made a choice not to put in divine classes because they didn't see the need to in a world where the gods were dead. People bought up elemental classes, but the reason elemental clerics were in 2E has simple logic, as demonstated by [URL="http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3196218&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=39#post378178196"]Rodney Thompson[/URL]: So that is why elemental priest went from being a cleric to a primal power source related theme. There wasn't a justification that could be used or a way of logically integrating divine classes into the setting. At the same time returning to the Eladrin/Feywild part, they had a logical justification and a way of putting in Eladrin into Dark Sun. So they did so. [/QUOTE]
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