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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Wik" data-source="post: 5214654" data-attributes="member: 40177">Hey, Aegeri?  I'm not calling anyone daft, and I'm not jumping in on personal attacks.  I find this an interesting topic, and so do a few others.  Let's not get in on the personal attacks or heated comments, here.  I'd rather see this thread kept open, even if we disagree with one another.  Agreed.  I never argued that.  But there is a lot of feywild geared stuff out there.  Personally, I think the shadowfell would work better in Athas than a feywild, because I don't see it conflicting with one of the main athasian themes out there (the wilderness setting).  Well, first off, because that shade plane doesn't challenge the idea of athasian wilderness.  Dark Sun, to me, has always been about two things:  Spending time trying to survive in super dangerous cities, and then excaping those cities into the wilderness and trying to survive in a completely different manner.  Repeat.  The feywild - TO ME - dilutes that wilderness aspect a bit.  Because a lot of those places in Dark Sun I love... a village suspended over molten lava, a subterranean lake that hisses out yellow gas that causes hallucinations, or a psychic entity that calls people into the silt sea... those places are part of the natural world of athas.  And I can see them being shunted off to the feywild as a means of making the setting "make sense".  Rich Baker has already, in that blog post, mentioned doing this to preexisting material.  And I'm not a fan of that.  You may be.  Fair enough.  But it's not a mindset I approve of.  I'm not going to dig up the quote, or paraphrase it from memory.  Because apparently I should never use quotation marks.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":P" title="Stick out tongue    :P"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":P" />Not ignoring them.  Disagreeing with them.  Two different things.  I understand why he's doing what he's doing.  I just don't think those reasons are necessary/worthwhile.  I will not be doing them in my campaign, and in a perfect world, I'd rather see that page space being used to describe other things.I've been waiting for fifteen years to find out what's to be found in "Mage Home".  Tell me more about THAT, please!Both KM and I have responded to that.  And why we disagree with it.  But I'll reiterate MY views on this.  A scattered feywild works, but since Baker's post ties Eladrin and the Feywild together, I think we can assume that the justification that Eladrin use the feywild to teleport still stands.  That means that, fluff-wise, there is always a feywild when an Eladrin chooses to teleport.  Meaning those small pockets aren't that scattered.This may not be the case. We're extrapolating.  Absoltuely.  But it's not just me.  People who are pointing at the post and saying "this is fact" are extrapolating too.  It goes both ways.  And yeah, the feywild is dying.  But then, so is Athas.  So, again, why do we need another batch of dying wilderness that is turned up to 11?  A few functional reasons have been given, which I have acknowledged.  They're not for me, but whatever.  To each their own.  I still don't think they're necessary.As for those xenophobic inhabitants... how can they fight off invaders?  If they are somehow better than the Elves, Thri-Kreen, Muls, and Humans of the setting (to say nothing of the wasteland horrors or Sorcerer kings), then we have another case of "Eladrin are always awesome"itis going around.  If they're in a place that can be invaded, they should not be able to withstand the invasion.I don't want Eladrin to occupy in Athas the place that Drow occupy in Forgotten Realms.  Your tasts may vary.I like how you accuse me of not listening to others, and then ignore my line of reasoning completely. Are we comparing apples to apples here?  Thay is a place with undead and wizards on the material plane.  The Abyss is a place where none of the rules of physics apply, and everything is suffering.The desert in athas is a dry, hot place devastated by arcane magic.  The feywild connected to athas is a dryer, hotter place even more devastated by arcane magic.  Still better than Des Moines or Saskatchewan.If they go to the Abyss, and then come back, yeah, they probably will.My players hate the dwarven city of Drogas, but they prefer it to the Tiefling city of Kael Turath.  Which is a better place to be than the outskirts of the feywild.Which is fine and dandy.  But they're comparing different entities.  And the wilderness of athas is one of the key points of the setting.  To put a place alongside it and make that place an exaggeration of your key point overshadows said key point.  In my humble opinion.  How is it an argument?  I am simply saying "I'll consider your point of view, if you'll consider mine"?  Isn't that the exact opposite of an argument?  I'm a very bad person, for daring to consider what those who disagree with me are saying, apparently.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Yyyyup.  Absolutely true.  Never argued that point.Now, if you don't want to use it, aren't you glad that page, page and a half (not to mention the inevitable "fey monsters" in the MM addition) are there?  And if you do use it, what are you using it as?  To be honest, many of the suggestions people have made on how to use the feywild, in my mind, don't need a feywild at all, to be just as cool.  A vague "Shade Plane" could cover a lot more bases as an alternative plane than a specifically nature-themed plane could in Dark Sun... and help convey the settings theme more, as well.  I am saying that it doesn't need to be there.  That the space can be better used.  We know that there will be a sidebar saying "hey, if you want to have gnomes, they could exist, but it's not core".  Why make the feywild core, when you could just as easily leave it undefined for people to use if they see fit, without needlessly changing the setting?Pardon my sarcasm, here, but it's the only way I can summarize my point.  Thank *GOD* WotC made a place that is so bad that our PCs can't visit it.</blockquote>

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