Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Aegeri" data-source="post: 5214677" data-attributes="member: 78116">Saying your arguments are daft =/ personal attack. Because you are making some really poorly supported arguments.I still don't see the relevance here to Dark Sun or why this somehow shows that the feywild was put into Dark Sun based on this. Your logic here is just not supported, because as I mentioned the shadowfell has had quite a bit more than the feywild (or at least as much). Neither does the feywild and you've not made a convincing argument for why this is so yet.Okay I can go with this train of thought thus far.You have poor evidence that this is the case. In fact absolutely zero except for one particular place that is mentioned. It's also mentioned as disappearing off Athas and then reappearing - like a mirage. Where would a place that disappears and reappears mysteriously be most likely located? On another plane that phases in and out with the current one.Undoubtedly you will mangle the example Rich Baker gave as if that somehow accounts for all natural environments on Athas. This is more than likely not going to be the case, because the specific example makes sense specifically as a place in the feywild. Everything you describe there that are natural formations on Athas are unlikely to be on the feywild if they are intended for being on Athas itself.In addition to this, given that they feywild is very rare as they have emphasized there is very little of the feywild left. This means there isn't enough feywild to go around all these fantastic locations in one world.So do you honestly believe that's enough to account for all the normally pretty horribly just by itself terrain?What a guess! You did indeed utterly mangle the example he gave that even makes 100% sense for the context it is put in for being in the feywild. A place that is described as a mirage that appears and disappears, suddenly turns into all fantastic athasian terrain in the feywild.The sheer leap of logic here is just astounding and utterly unfounded.You seem to assume I think all fantastic terrain in athas is from the feywild when no such thing has been said, by Rich Baker or anyone working on Dark Sun at all.Here is the <a href="http://community.wizards.com/wotc_richbaker/blog/2010/06/10/eladrin_of_athas,_future_of_the_kriegsmarine" target="_blank">example from Rich Bakers blog for the record</a>:Sometimes you run into otherworldly strange places and hidden cities. Given these are rumors it suggests these are not at all commonly encountered (or perhaps even survived). It does not state anywhere "All fantastic terrain is from the feywild". It would help if you disagreed with what he wrote and not what you think he wrote.I haven't really found your responses logical to be honest.Why? This is a fluff based answer, but it does not mean that Eladrin in dark sun have to teleport.Even though he said they were when he wrote:If you can't travel from one feywild location to another through the feywild, it indicates they are pretty scattered. He might be putting on his prince of lies hat and each trip might be the equivalent of going five minutes down the road, but I don't think any fair or reasonable interpretation of what he actually wrote indicates they are close together.I'm quoting Rich Baker directly and what he's writing is far closer to what I'm saying the interpretation is.Maybe that's why they are in pockets of a plane that is rarely occurring and hard to find or travel to? I mean, your argument here just doesn't make sense because I can flip it on any of the above races. How are elves surviving? How are Thri-Kreen? Muls? Humans? I mean, everything in Athas wants to kill you.That's because your argument there is extremely poor and not even well supported by logic. So how does this change your core point?Your point is:Place A is terriblePlace B is more terrible then Place AMagically, Place A is suddenly not terrible anymore.How in any manner does this make sense? This is your logic.So does that suddenly make Thay not terrible anymore?I'm confused because someone who is a slave in Thay probably isn't worried about other places at the moment.Which is why it's handy I decide if I even use the abyss in my campaign.When I'm running a game in the middle of Thay the key point of the setting of that campaign is the fact its a horrible blasted undead wasteland. That there are worse places isn't so relevant.That's extremely rare, up to the DM to use and will be gone very soon anyway.Your point of view isn't even based on what Rich Baker wrote in my opinion. This is really the exception I am taking to your arguments, they are adding this vast amount of hyperbole onto something that has been made pretty clear how it works.Also your argument is implying "You'll see it will be different" and yet it won't. Because I determine exactly (as I'll be DMing) if that is in the game or not to begin with. I don't see what there is to remove, because if I don't want to use it then I don't have to! They even give me a perfect fluff reason not to!Whatever I feel like, given that he already wrote:And they can be back whenever I want. I could even make that a campaign if I felt like it. But ultimately it makes exceptionally little difference because feywild based effects (mechanically) are barely existent anyway (some wizard spells are exceptions to this rule).I'm saying it doesn't matter either way, because Rich Baker has wrote it into the setting a way that is both carefully considered and based on good logic. Logic that you constantly turn into strawmans that come out of absolutely nothing he wrote. Like using fluff for teleportation in the players handbook instead of seeing how it works in Dark Sun. Not that teleportation powers in Dark Sun require you to travel across another plane to function though I'd like to point out.<a href="http://community.wizards.com/wotc_richbaker/blog/2010/06/10/eladrin_of_athas,_future_of_the_kriegsmarine" target="_blank">Maybe a designer blogged about that</a>? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />I know! It's like they made something that's very rare and hard to access, because it's very rare and hard to access normally on that plane <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Edit: My problem really isn't that you dislike it, it's that you're making contrived reasons that aren't based on what anyone wrote about it to dislike it. If you had simply said "I dislike this because I don't really like Eladrin in the setting" that would be fine. The reasons you've come up with though aren't supported by what Rich Baker wrote about it on his blog. You've extrapolated things yes, but you've done so in a way that isn't suggested from a fair reading of the text you're basing your extrapolation on.Edit2: Let it be known that if the feywild is absolutely EVERYWHERE and that if ALL magical terrain is explained using the feywild in the book as you claim I will be the *first* to apologize to you for my tone. Otherwise I think you are being uncharitable to how Rich Baker has described this. Really, that's my problem with what you are arguing. You are more than welcome to hold me to this as well, consider it a bet/promise whatever.In fact I am so confident that Rich Baker and company haven't done anything like what you've described, that if I am wrong I will change my avatar to a pink tutu dancer and my title to the princess of lies.</blockquote>

Verification