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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lizard" data-source="post: 4587015" data-attributes="member: 1054">It would be proof a lot of people thought these things were wrong BEFORE the developers announced they were wrong. Given how people will rant on the Internet about the color of hobbit toenails on page 17 of an obscure module, I simply find it difficult that seemingly major problems with D&D have been present for 30-odd years and no one saw fit to complain about them in public. The deadliness of the elemental planes, for example, was either ignored ("You have the amulet of whatever that protects you, onwards!") or the planes were there as background fluff, never actually visited. I never heard anyone say, "I really WANT to run an adventure on the Plane of Earth, but I just can't!" (I personally felt the incredible hostility of the elemental planes was part of their charm, they were hideously inimical to "mortal" life, a place you could only go when you were closing in on demigod status, and when their energies spilled into the "real" world, strange and terrible things occurred...the idea of "safe" bubbles in these planes, and the sort of strange beings which might live in them, was also extremely appealing to me, and a great adventure seed. I love the idea of a town or settlement in a 'bubble' on, say, the plane of Earth (classic version), surrounded by literally infinite stone, ever aware that a shift in cosmic forces could crush them to nothingness, yet still home to those who, for whatever reason, need to be there...)FWIW, I ran into a similar problem with generic undersea adventuring. A Water Breathing spell is subject to Dispel Magic, and all underwater races would know this and it would be the first line of attack against surface dwellers. I just created a higher level, non-dispellable spell. I didn't need to redesign how oceans worked. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> Sure. But I'd expect it to be in the form of "Wow, you know, I never thought of that before... but they're right!" as opposed to the form of "We ALWAYS thought this, we just didn't TELL anyone." The design diaries, etc, often state things in a way which makes it seem as every change they make is so self-evidently brilliant and long-demanded that it's completely inconceivable anyone could possibly have ever played the game any other way and still had fun, and, yes, that attitude does annoy me, and it is very often echoed by 4e's more outspoken partisans. I find 4e to be a game which has actually managed to transcend its fanbase. It's fun DESPITE the people who like it.</blockquote>

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