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Message: <blockquote data-quote="TwinBahamut" data-source="post: 4592370" data-attributes="member: 32536">I never once stated that your views are "badwrongfun", or anything of the sort. Right at the very beginning, I just said that I disagree with you and that I simply have no basis for understanding why you think that the way you do. I then gave reasons why.Go ahead and do things the way you want. Have as much fun as you want the way you want. It doesn't matter to me at all. However, don't expect me to agree with you, since I simply don't share those opinions and assumptions behind your dislike (not that I ever thought you were trying to get me to think your way).After that point, it mostly became a matter of me defending my statement that the alternative was the historically accurate way polytheistic religions behave, while you tried to demonstrate otherwise, which I gave a rebuttal to (I have no idea how effective that was). There was also a bit of a matter of you trying to convince me that what I said didn't apply based on how Gods in D&D should and do behave, but that conversation didn't parse at all because we have totally opposing assumptions and ideas about how Gods in D&D work.To make things more clear, I prescribe to the idea that there is a single, unified and finite pantheon of gods in a D&D campaign, and each individual culture simply worships these same gods, just under different names and in different ways. One group may hold Bahamut as the highest god and act almost totally monotheistic, and another group may list him as one of the many vassal gods serving Pelor, but either way they are worshipping the same Bahamut. What is more, the people of the world pray to the gods in the hope of earning the gods' favor, and this prayer is not inherently beneficial to the gods (other than appealing to their egos, I guess). The Gods possess a power in of themselves, and do not depend on the worship of mortals to sustain their divine might. A cleric, paladin, or invoker is given power because that individual having power and using it in a certain way furthers the goals of one or more gods, and such individuals are given power solely on their own suitability in the eyes of the gods, not because they prayed hard enough.Under that context, Invokers work perfectly well, and a lot of your arguments really don't make any sense to me. I can understand that you might have a problem if you use different assumptions, but I don't really share those assumptions. I still disagree with you, but now at least I understand why you disagree with me (though I wish you didn't try to argue that historical religions didn't work the way they actually do).</blockquote>

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