Dragon Breath

[Patlin]

Draconomicon and Complete Divine each have fairly different spells called "Dragon Breath." One is at 3rd level, the other is at 5th. One is sorc/wiz, the other is also available to Clerics. One offers 4 elemental breath weapons only, the other includes sleep and paralysis. Those are only some of the differences.

Since they have the same name, does the (later) Complete Divine spell mean that the Draconomicon spell is no loger available? The spells are so different (and the latter one seems to not take into account all of the things the other one specifically limited, such as having more than one version of the spell active at once or how the spell interacts with a natural breath weapon) that I would suspect the later was written without reference to the former.

I'm thinking about asking my DM to allow the Draconomicon version, since the Complete Divine version seems to throw some doubt on whether the earlier one is still a valid spell. What do you all think?

 

[Thanee]

As long as there are no unbalancing problems with any one of them, I'd just use both.

If it's clearly the same spell, like with Nature's Favor, which also appears twice in two books, only the newest incarnation should be used, but if they are so different...

Bye
Thanee

 

[Cabral]

Hmm. looking at the two versions, I really wonder if the Complete Divine Dragon Breath is too weak for the level or if the Draconomicon version is too strong (or both).

A 10th level Sorcerer (required to cast both) could:
3rd level spell: (remember sorcerers gain +1 CL) gain a breath weapon, usable 6 times in a 110 min duration to deal 9d6 damage (average 31.5 dmg) with a variety of elemental attack types and shapes (max 60 ft line, 30 ft cone), no alignment descriptor. Cannot use the breath weapon for 1d4+1 rounds after using it.
5th level spell: (no +1 CL) gain a breath weapon, usable any number of times (Minimum 3, Maximum 5) in a 10 round duration to deal 5d8 damage (average 22.6 dmg) or spell effect with damage/spell with range of 15 ft for a cone, 30 ft for a line. must wait 1d4 rounds between breath weapon usages. Damage/effect choices are limited by alignment (with neutral on a good/evil axis casters having full selection

In just about every way, the Draconomicon version beats the Complete Divine. Considering that the Draconomicon strikes me as better designed overall, I'm inclined to say that it is the more balanced spell without comparing against other spells.

A quick check against other 3rd level spells shows that it will be dealing less damage (9d6 at 10th level vs 10d6 for Fireball and Lighting bolt or 4d6 at 6th level vs 6d6) in exchange for more uses per casting. The only thing that really bothers me (I am giving it a little more leeway already considering it's a "flavor spell") is the long duration and how much damage it deals for a transmutation spell (The Complete Divine is an Evocation spell, which the Draconomicon Dragon Breath spell may be better off as)

 

[Patlin]

The draconomicon version is 3d6+1d6 per 2 levels above 5th, so a 10th level sorceror would gain a 6d6 breath weapon. A wizard would gain 5d6.

So it's a little bit less powerfull than you give it credit for, but still a very nice spell.

Also, sorcerors (unlike clerics) are perfectly able to cast spells opposed to their alignment. That is, unless they are squeemish like me.

 

[Cabral]

Whoops. Bad math A bit embarassing that I didn't catch it when I recalculated for a 6th level sorcerer

That puts the average damage from a the draconomicon (again by a 10th lvl sorcerer) at 21 pts, still a pretty clear victor over the 5th level spell.

Okay, the point about the damage from transmutation spell still stands ... it's just shorter

 

[KarinsDad]

The draconomicon version is 3d6+1d6 per 2 levels above 5th, so a 10th level sorceror would gain a 6d6 breath weapon. A wizard would gain 5d6.

I don't have the book, but doesn't your sentence here imply 5D6?

5: 3D6
7: 4D6
9: 5D6

 

[Cabral]

I don't have the book, but doesn't your sentence here imply 5D6?

5: 3D6
7: 4D6
9: 5D6

Sorcerers cast the spell at +1 caster level so it's actually:
5: 3d6
6: 4d6
8: 5d6
10: 6d6

 

[KarinsDad]

Sorcerers cast the spell at +1 caster level so it's actually:
5: 3d6
6: 4d6
8: 5d6
10: 6d6

Ok. Thanks.

 

[Patlin]

Just got spell compendium, which has a 4th level version of this spell. Since it clearly consulted both sources, I'd have to say the version there replaces the other two. It still has the [good] or [evil] descriptor, and lacks the sorceror cating bonus.

 

[Cabral]

Which does it more resemble?