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Message: <blockquote data-quote="radmod" data-source="post: 5277339" data-attributes="member: 93008">This is where I think you are going the wrong way. IF we were talking strict game mechanics, it would work that way. Instead, we are talking comparative analysis, which is a totally different monster.Let me explain:If you are a low level party, you won't encounter a Balor, Pit Fiend, Remorhaz unless your DMs out to kill you or you did something really, really dumb. However, you can encounter a red dragon, only one of the young type (1 or 2 hps/HD).At medium (to higher) levels, you might encounter a bigger bad ass monster and it would be the run-of-the-mill average type. Likewise, the dragon you face would probably have 4 or 5 hps/HD.At high levels, you face the ancient red dragon. Any competent DM, to challenge you, isn't going to give you the averaged out big monster, he's going to give you the biggest baddest one he can make. And the biggest, baddest versions of many high-powered 1e monsters are far more scary than the ancient red (the biggest baddest dragons around, save Bahamut and Tiamut).So you really can't compare a average big monster with an ancient red dragon, you would have to compare it with an average red dragon (~ adult). Otherwise, it would be like comparing the speeds of US biplanes against those of German jet fighters. If you're going to compare the biggest baddest red dragon (ancient red) then you have to compare it with the biggest baddest X monster. (Jet vs. Jet)The real problem is that you will never convince me that 1e dragons were tough because I am speaking from experience. My experience, as well as the experience of every 1e player I ever discussed this with (and we're talking alot of people) was that 1e dragons weren't particularly scary. We were always looking for ways to make them tougher. In fact, when I was DMing 2e with totally different and new groups they were amazed that my modified dragons (much like the ones now) were actually tough compared to their experiences in 1e.BTW, in the previous post I should've said the DM finally relented and ruled the remorhaz didn't swallow the guy. He was the one arguing that it would've.</blockquote>

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