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<blockquote data-quote="Psion" data-source="post: 4063095" data-attributes="member: 172">FWIW, I grew up with ToH, but don't share the adoration of it. As I've commented about elsewhere, it's the materhorn of dungeon gaming, not the model for all dungeons.I find people's comments to the tune of &quot;finally! no more deathtrap dungeons&quot; mystifying, considering that the frequency of such dungeons plummeted when the &quot;save or die&quot; poison damage was supplanted with ability damage. It's like people are clapping because we are solving a problem that has already been solved.Turning my attention back to this...I don't know about anyone else in the audience, but I relate to movies in a way different than I relate to games, and I find that most arguments that posit &quot;if this movie ran like a game it would be a bad movie&quot; while fundamentally correct, don't really make the intended case that makes the game in this case bad.Y'see, the problem for me is that I see a big rock rolling at a person and I thing &quot;that would squish me if it was on me&quot;, and necessarily think that Indy could get hurt. In a way, I am relying on the visual medium evoking my personal perception of the situation to tell me that Indy is in imminent danger, which is exciting.In the game, however... I have a much more present measure of danger. I know what would cause my character to die. Failing a save could, as could a large application of HP damage. When I see a beholder in the game, I know I am in imminent danger, because I know that I will be repeatedly exposed to danger in its presence. Like Indy, I should run (unless I have a real good reason not to.)So yeah, where am I getting with this? If you want to elicit fear and excitement from me over the fate of, make me believe my character is mortal. That doesn't mean filling a dungeon with bodaks and beholders. But do let me know there are things out there that can kill my character. Occasionally reinforce the point by taking one.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Psion, post: 4063095, member: 172"] FWIW, I grew up with ToH, but don't share the adoration of it. As I've commented about elsewhere, it's the materhorn of dungeon gaming, not the model for all dungeons. I find people's comments to the tune of "finally! no more deathtrap dungeons" mystifying, considering that the frequency of such dungeons plummeted when the "save or die" poison damage was supplanted with ability damage. It's like people are clapping because we are solving a problem that has already been solved. Turning my attention back to this... I don't know about anyone else in the audience, but I relate to movies in a way different than I relate to games, and I find that most arguments that posit "if this movie ran like a game it would be a bad movie" while fundamentally correct, don't really make the intended case that makes the game in this case bad. Y'see, the problem for me is that I see a big rock rolling at a person and I thing "that would squish me if it was on me", and necessarily think that Indy could get hurt. In a way, I am relying on the visual medium evoking my personal perception of the situation to tell me that Indy is in imminent danger, which is exciting. In the game, however... I have a much more present measure of danger. I know what would cause my character to die. Failing a save could, as could a large application of HP damage. When I see a beholder in the game, I know I am in imminent danger, because I know that I will be repeatedly exposed to danger in its presence. Like Indy, I should run (unless I have a real good reason not to.) So yeah, where am I getting with this? If you want to elicit fear and excitement from me over the fate of, make me believe my character is mortal. That doesn't mean filling a dungeon with bodaks and beholders. But do let me know there are things out there that can kill my character. Occasionally reinforce the point by taking one. [/QUOTE]

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